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Thread: Vermont prioritises BIPOC over white people for COVID-19 vaccine

  1. Top | #51
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    Well, this should be easy to test your theory. Just which middle aged people very recently got serious covid because they were not vaccinated and they can sue. There should be these middle aged people everywhere, like 42 year olds etc who were not in the first round of senior citizens. Every state should have them.

    Sue and see what happens.

  2. Top | #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don2 (Don1 Revised) View Post
    Well, this should be easy to test your theory. Just which middle aged people very recently got serious covid because they were not vaccinated and they can sue. There should be these middle aged people everywhere, like 42 year olds etc who were not in the first round of senior citizens. Every state should have them.

    Sue and see what happens.
    That is not what I had in mind, i.e., they would not need to show that they got serious covid because they were not vaccinated. Rather, what they would have to show is that they got serious covid and did not get vaccinated due to racial discrimination. Then the argument goes that without that discrimination, there is a significant chance (that's epistemic probability) that they would have gotten the vaccine earlier and that that would have prevented serious covid. The causal link need not be established conclusively, only that it might be that way, so the compensation would also be based on the probability of harm due to the unconstitutional action.

    I have no idea whether that would work, though. Maybe the Sovereign Immunity B20 mentioned would be used to reject the claim. Or something else.
    Last edited by Angra Mainyu; 04-04-2021 at 07:48 AM.

  3. Top | #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Nothing unconstitutional abut medical experts saying who should be vaccinated first.
    So if they concluded that straight White guys should go first, you'd be okay with that?
    Of course. But that isn't the case.

    Live with it.

  4. Top | #54
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    https://www.apmresearchlab.org/covid/deaths-by-race



    * Includes all available data from Washington, D.C., and the 50 states. Users are cautioned that the Indigenous rate is calculated from just 43 states reporting Indigenous deaths, and the Pacific Islander rate from just 22 states reporting such deaths. States employ varying collection methods regarding ethnicity data. Denominator is built from data aggregated from each state, aligned with their method. Users are cautioned that states do not uniformly report Indigenous, Pacific Islander and other deaths, and many of these deaths are represented in "Other" race

  5. Top | #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Nothing unconstitutional abut medical experts saying who should be vaccinated first.
    So if they concluded that straight White guys should go first, you'd be okay with that?
    I would.

    I'm assuming that the health authorities are trying to prioritize the highest risk groups, while on the way to enough vaccinated folks to start providing the protection of herd immunity.

    In other words, start at the beginning and work your way towards the goal as efficiently as possible.

    I don't think that concept would be difficult to grasp if there weren't so many people, like you and the OP, looking for ideological straws to grasp. Ways to whine about how straight white males are really the one's being discriminated against.

    That's what I see.

    Tom

  6. Top | #56
    Might be a replicant Emily Lake's Avatar
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    Caveat: I just skipped like five pages of this thread.

    Met - the inclusion of ethnicity in this triage list is a reflection of ethnic minorities in general having lower access to health care and being lower income. These are populations that have materially lower levels of health treatment. The reasons for that are complicated and multifaceted. Some of it is due to racially differential treatment practices in medicine, some of it is due to poverty and income, and some of it is due to cultural variances in how medicine is approached (particularly with first nations).

    Bear in mind that the first priority included first responders and senior citizens - and that the age effect that was noted early in this thread is largely coming from the difference in impact between senior aged males and senior aged females. For younger and middle-aged people, the variance in outcomes between males and females is very small.

    An additional consideration is that the prioritization here is extremely unlikely to result in discriminatory treatment toward white people. Even if it sounds like it on paper... the actual effect of this really ends up being to encourage BIPOC people to actually get in earlier. I would be willing to bet that if you tracked the actual vaccination patterns, you'd still end up seeing BIPOC people getting vaccinated at a lower rate than white people, and getting vaccinated later in the season. The prioritization doesn't do much more than marginally shift the timing for those people.

  7. Top | #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily Lake View Post
    Caveat: I just skipped like five pages of this thread.

    Met - the inclusion of ethnicity in this triage list is a reflection of ethnic minorities in general having lower access to health care and being lower income. These are populations that have materially lower levels of health treatment. The reasons for that are complicated and multifaceted. Some of it is due to racially differential treatment practices in medicine, some of it is due to poverty and income, and some of it is due to cultural variances in how medicine is approached (particularly with first nations).

    Bear in mind that the first priority included first responders and senior citizens - and that the age effect that was noted early in this thread is largely coming from the difference in impact between senior aged males and senior aged females. For younger and middle-aged people, the variance in outcomes between males and females is very small.

    An additional consideration is that the prioritization here is extremely unlikely to result in discriminatory treatment toward white people. Even if it sounds like it on paper... the actual effect of this really ends up being to encourage BIPOC people to actually get in earlier. I would be willing to bet that if you tracked the actual vaccination patterns, you'd still end up seeing BIPOC people getting vaccinated at a lower rate than white people, and getting vaccinated later in the season. The prioritization doesn't do much more than marginally shift the timing for those people.
    But without this outrageous race-based prioritization, there vaccination rate for BIPOC people would be lower and there'd be more sick and dead BIPOCs and fewer sick and dead white people!!! Don'cha get it? It is part of the war against white people.

  8. Top | #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Nothing unconstitutional abut medical experts saying who should be vaccinated first.
    So if they concluded that straight White guys should go first, you'd be okay with that?
    I would.

    I'm assuming that the health authorities are trying to prioritize the highest risk groups, while on the way to enough vaccinated folks to start providing the protection of herd immunity.

    In other words, start at the beginning and work your way towards the goal as efficiently as possible.

    I don't think that concept would be difficult to grasp if there weren't so many people, like you and the OP, looking for ideological straws to grasp. Ways to whine about how straight white males are really the one's being discriminated against.

    That's what I see.

    Tom
    Once you establish a precedent that government may discriminate based upon on race, then government will discriminate based on race.

  9. Top | #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    Once you establish a precedent that government may discriminate based upon on raceage, then government will discriminate based on raceage.
    FIFY.

    Why are you obsessed with the blacks taking over?

  10. Top | #60
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    Once you establish a precedent that government may discriminate based upon on race, then government will discriminate based on race.
    I was born in 1958.
    Over the course of my lifetime I've found exactly the opposite.

    The government and society used to do that, quite unapologetically. But things have changed hugely over time.

    I think you're full of crap. Health officials are attempting to get the Trump Virus under control as best as they are able. Once the highest risk groups are vaccinated, and vaccine production matches vaccine demand, there will be no reason to go on choosing who to prioritize. I expect that to be early summer.
    Tom

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