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Thread: In space everybody was equal.

  1. Top | #11
    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    At least for a day. Let's celebrate the only day in history the USSR didn't suck.

    Yay, Comrade Yuri Gagarin. Some comrades are more equal than others.

    Didn't suck? Him getting back alive was more about luck than not sucking.
    That's still true for any space mission
    At least for Apollo 13.

  2. Top | #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    At least for a day. Let's celebrate the only day in history the USSR didn't suck.

    Yay, Comrade Yuri Gagarin. Some comrades are more equal than others.

    Didn't suck? Him getting back alive was more about luck than not sucking.
    That's still true for any space mission
    Most missions have a good chance of bringing the astronauts home safe. Gagarin was riding an extremely dangerous rocket.

  3. Top | #13
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    And yet, only four cosmonauts have ever perished in spaceflight, against the US' fifteen.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

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    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post

    That's still true for any space mission
    Most missions have a good chance of bringing the astronauts home safe. Gagarin was riding an extremely dangerous rocket.
    The Cold War and Space Race are over. We can stop batting for sides here.

    Both NASA and SSSR did a bangin' job. Both were well funded and put their money to good use. They had slighty different approaches. But neither were totally in the wrong or reckless. Both built dangerous rockets that needed very brave pilots to fly.

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    Veteran Member Tharmas's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting blog post (with links to sources) about Gagarin's flight. It's from the "Freethought Blags" site. I find Mano Singham to be usually reliable.

    There is apparently some controversy over whether or not Gagarin's flight should actually be called a spaceflight since he wasn't in the capsule when it landed. I agree, though, brave men, and women, on dangerous rockets.

  6. Top | #16
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    When you take off from an airport and fly away a few hundred miles and back, technically it is a local flight that you put in your log book. If you land and take off someplace else and return it is a cross country flight.

    If you parachute out of the plane over the airport and the pilotless plane crashed elsewhere I don't you don't get to put the flight in your log.

    There were reports by European radio armatures of people screaming over the radio from Soviet capsules in orbit in the early days. Flights not openly reported by the Soviets.

    Humans in space are no different than humans on Earth. Put a small group on a long mission to Mars and the odds are disputes and power politics will appear. Including potential violence.


    Yuri's fight would technically be a croos countrty flight. Take off in one place and land at another.

    It is all nonsense about the space flight of course.

    Is it Neptue that goes back and forth with being a planet or not?
    The ISS has restraints and sedatives if somebody has a melt down.

  7. Top | #17
    Veteran Member Tharmas's Avatar
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    Here is a picture I took in a Romanian military museum of a Soviet space capsule from the Space Race era. Looks to me like it's roughly comparable in size to a U.S. Gemini capsule.

    In terms of Gagarin's flight, if it was orbital I'd consider it a space flight. He did one orbit, ergo ... *



    *edited to add: I understand that U.S. X-15 test pilots, who flew the rocket plane above what is considered to be the limit of the earth's atmosphere, applied for astronaut patches (and status/recognition) from the government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharmas View Post
    Here is a picture I took in a Romanian military museum of a Soviet space capsule from the Space Race era. Looks to me like it's roughly comparable in size to a U.S. Gemini capsule.

    In terms of Gagarin's flight, if it was orbital I'd consider it a space flight. He did one orbit, ergo ... *
    I'll apply the Kerbal Space Program definitions: You get above the Karman line (KSP has a hard edge to the atmosphere, same idea) and it's considered space flight. Get your periapsis above the Karman line and it's orbital. (And note that KSP will give you credit for orbital flight even if you don't complete an orbit. I've gypped a lot of tourists, circularize, flip and deorbit in a few minutes. You get more credit for what you bring back the closer to the launch facility you are and that's how the timing works out. I've put plenty of birds into the bay right next to the space center. Trying to make a whole orbital rocket land without tipping is very hard--and completely impossible if you come down somewhere not very flat, it's a lot easier to wrap your fuel/engines around the core and fire your decouplers at the last second--if you put something big down in the water without making it come apart it tips and hits the water hard enough to destroy it.)

  9. Top | #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    At least for a day. Let's celebrate the only day in history the USSR didn't suck.
    The USSR had quite a few non-sucky days.

    Sure, it had a lot of sucky days in between; But certainly in principle if not always in practice, Soviet ideas of sexual equality were WAY ahead of their time.

    Many of their best front line combat personnel in WWII, including aviators and tank commanders, were women. And that's two decades before Gargarin's first space flight, three decades before western 'Womens Lib' movements, and seven decades before the UK allowed women as front line soldiers. The USA is still working on it.
    Even today, countries in Eastern and South Eastern Europe have among the highest shares of female researchers, much higher than Western Europe on average: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._on_Europe.svg

  10. Top | #20
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokodo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    At least for a day. Let's celebrate the only day in history the USSR didn't suck.
    The USSR had quite a few non-sucky days.

    Sure, it had a lot of sucky days in between; But certainly in principle if not always in practice, Soviet ideas of sexual equality were WAY ahead of their time.

    Many of their best front line combat personnel in WWII, including aviators and tank commanders, were women. And that's two decades before Gargarin's first space flight, three decades before western 'Womens Lib' movements, and seven decades before the UK allowed women as front line soldiers. The USA is still working on it.
    Even today, countries in Eastern and South Eastern Europe have among the highest shares of female researchers, much higher than Western Europe on average: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._on_Europe.svg
    It's got nothing to do with socialism, or feminism. It's the same in all mid-range poor countries, (gender equal as well as super patriarchal countries). It's simply an effect of poverty. The field of engineering is the quickest expanding market for jobs, and has been the entire 20'th century. When people migrate from farms into the cities their best bet if they want to become middle class is to aim for an engineering job.

    The reason why the west is more gender unequal when it comes to technology and engineering actually has to do with feminism. The women in the west are the most free women. It's the women with the fewest constraints with what they can do with their lives. It's simply down to that women, (in general) prefer to work with people and men prefer to work with things. The more gender equal the more extreme the effect.

    For whatever reason, women don't want to be engineers or work in tech. It's something they only will do if they are forced to it. There is of course plenty of women who love working in tech. But this is women in general.

    It's got nothing to do with capacity. Of late, women typically outperform men at university in these subjects. So it's not that. It's not because of the patriarchy keeping the women out. These jobs are all bending over backwards in getting women in. This is something I know a lot about, since I've been working with it.

    Whenever a society reaches a level of wealth where children can tell their parents to fuck off, then women will also tell their science, tech and engineering jobs to fuck off. From what I've seen it seems to be innate. The more we give women freedom, the fewer female engineers we'll get. That seems to be how it works.

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