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Thread: If Gods are Real, Where are They?

  1. Top | #101
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post

    Really? The first crusade utterly wrecked the economy of the Byzantine empire, the buffer against Islam. They never really recovered. The crusader states were inherently unstable. But what's interesting is the Muslim reaction to the crusader states, ie none. Saladin conquered the crusader states while on the way to somewhere else. The crusader states didn't even act to unite the Muslims against them. They hardly gave a shit. Saladin acted on his own.

    The Ottoman Caliphate was cosmopolitan. They had no interest in converting anybody to Islam. Until quite late they even forbade conversion.

    The Islamic world only started getting upset about the Crusades in the modern anti-colonial rhetoric. Then they backdated the grand narrative of the Islamic conquest and the importance of Saladin.

    What protected the west from the rule under the Caliphate was Vienna in 1520'ies. It was about military technology. Not religion

    I think you're repeating a modern myth that was never true.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAn_I64mloU

    Regards
    DL
    Wow... what a loonie.

    Perhaps you should google people before you post their videos?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Warner_(writer)

    Sure, he's not as crazy as Spencer. It's a sliding scale. This guy is way out there.

    He fails to understand the economic differences. Medieval Europe was a poor backwater. Money was equated with agrarian output. Due to Byzantine and Sassanid idiocy they pretty much gave away all the most fertile land to a bunch of Beduin camel herders. Within a century the Muslims sit on the biggest engine of war = the most money.

    No, shit the crusaders attacked the Muslims less than the Muslims attacked them. How would they have afforded it? The Levant is not a particularly fertile region.

    The Muslim conquest was about money and power. The crusades was primarily about religion (and getting rid of a surplus of poor knights on suicide missions). If you start wars to get money and power you will get more money and power, so you can start new wars. If you start wars for religious reasons you don't get money and power and you can't start more wars.

    Bill Warner is a clown. He comes across as a Christian apologist. Christianity and Islam were born out of different situations. Christianity is a religion for slaves designed to make life under an oppressive emperor more bearable. Islam is a religion designed to knit together disparate Beduin tribes. This has had an influence on their history and sacred texts.

    But in practice, they are very similar. What sets them apart is the contexts they found themselves in, rather than any deeper philosophical or theological difference. Historically Christianity has been about just as much politics as Islam.

  2. Top | #102
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post

    Really? The first crusade utterly wrecked the economy of the Byzantine empire, the buffer against Islam. They never really recovered. The crusader states were inherently unstable. But what's interesting is the Muslim reaction to the crusader states, ie none. Saladin conquered the crusader states while on the way to somewhere else. The crusader states didn't even act to unite the Muslims against them. They hardly gave a shit. Saladin acted on his own.

    The Ottoman Caliphate was cosmopolitan. They had no interest in converting anybody to Islam. Until quite late they even forbade conversion.

    The Islamic world only started getting upset about the Crusades in the modern anti-colonial rhetoric. Then they backdated the grand narrative of the Islamic conquest and the importance of Saladin.

    What protected the west from the rule under the Caliphate was Vienna in 1520'ies. It was about military technology. Not religion

    I think you're repeating a modern myth that was never true.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAn_I64mloU

    Regards
    DL
    Wow... what a loonie.

    Perhaps you should google people before you post their videos?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Warner_(writer)

    Sure, he's not as crazy as Spencer. It's a sliding scale. This guy is way out there.

    He fails to understand the economic differences. Medieval Europe was a poor backwater. Money was equated with agrarian output. Due to Byzantine and Sassanid idiocy they pretty much gave away all the most fertile land to a bunch of Beduin camel herders. Within a century the Muslims sit on the biggest engine of war = the most money.

    No, shit the crusaders attacked the Muslims less than the Muslims attacked them. How would they have afforded it? The Levant is not a particularly fertile region.

    The Muslim conquest was about money and power. The crusades was primarily about religion (and getting rid of a surplus of poor knights on suicide missions). If you start wars to get money and power you will get more money and power, so you can start new wars. If you start wars for religious reasons you don't get money and power and you can't start more wars.

    Bill Warner is a clown. He comes across as a Christian apologist. Christianity and Islam were born out of different situations. Christianity is a religion for slaves designed to make life under an oppressive emperor more bearable. Islam is a religion designed to knit together disparate Beduin tribes. This has had an influence on their history and sacred texts.

    But in practice, they are very similar. What sets them apart is the contexts they found themselves in, rather than any deeper philosophical or theological difference. Historically Christianity has been about just as much politics as Islam.
    You killed the messenger yet left his work untouched.

    Was any of his data wrong?

    Show the error.

    Regards
    DL

  3. Top | #103
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post

    Wow... what a loonie.

    Perhaps you should google people before you post their videos?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Warner_(writer)

    Sure, he's not as crazy as Spencer. It's a sliding scale. This guy is way out there.

    He fails to understand the economic differences. Medieval Europe was a poor backwater. Money was equated with agrarian output. Due to Byzantine and Sassanid idiocy they pretty much gave away all the most fertile land to a bunch of Beduin camel herders. Within a century the Muslims sit on the biggest engine of war = the most money.

    No, shit the crusaders attacked the Muslims less than the Muslims attacked them. How would they have afforded it? The Levant is not a particularly fertile region.

    The Muslim conquest was about money and power. The crusades was primarily about religion (and getting rid of a surplus of poor knights on suicide missions). If you start wars to get money and power you will get more money and power, so you can start new wars. If you start wars for religious reasons you don't get money and power and you can't start more wars.

    Bill Warner is a clown. He comes across as a Christian apologist. Christianity and Islam were born out of different situations. Christianity is a religion for slaves designed to make life under an oppressive emperor more bearable. Islam is a religion designed to knit together disparate Beduin tribes. This has had an influence on their history and sacred texts.

    But in practice, they are very similar. What sets them apart is the contexts they found themselves in, rather than any deeper philosophical or theological difference. Historically Christianity has been about just as much politics as Islam.
    You killed the messenger yet left his work untouched.

    Was any of his data wrong?

    Show the error.

    Regards
    DL
    The data doesn't explain what he thinks it explains. He does the common right-wing fallacy of equating Islam with Islamism. Modern Islamism (Al Qaeda, ISIS etc) is a product born out of the ideas of Sayyid Qutb. A guy who wrote in the 1950'ies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb

    His data doesn't prove that Muslims were any more aggressive than Christians.

    All his data proves that wealth allows a ruler to extend their power further than they would otherwise. Which explains why USA has been embroiled in so many wars. Or why Great Britain ruled the greatest empire on Earth. Or why the Mongols were so effective.

    But it's a platitude. It's so blatantly obvious to anyone that nobody should have to point it out. And you too should know better than to buy into this guys nonsense.

  4. Top | #104
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    [ And you too should know better than to buy into this guys nonsense.
    So again, kill the messenger anf leave the work untouched, basically.

    Whatever Islam is, or any name you want to give to delusional people who follow Allah, they hold immoral tenets and are not a moral religion.

    Regards
    DL

  5. Top | #105
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    [ And you too should know better than to buy into this guys nonsense.
    So again, kill the messenger anf leave the work untouched, basically.
    Lying messengers should be shot. Wrong information is worse than no information. This guy is nothing but a well of misinformation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Whatever Islam is, or any name you want to give to delusional people who follow Allah, they hold immoral tenets and are not a moral religion.

    Regards
    DL
    Sure. But it's also a product of it's time. Do you want to compare the immorality of the Quran to the immorality of the Bible? It's the same shit. But it's religion. Quote mining religious texts is a waste of time. No religious person follows their religion to the letter. Not even fundamentalists. They all find ways to interpret it in whatever way works best for them.

    https://www.evilbible.com/

    There used to be a www.evilquran.com

    am I just an idiot? I can't find it. Does anybody have the current link?

  6. Top | #106
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post

    Lying messengers should be shot. Wrong information is worse than no information. This guy is nothing but a well of misinformation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Whatever Islam is, or any name you want to give to delusional people who follow Allah, they hold immoral tenets and are not a moral religion.

    Regards
    DL
    Sure. But it's also a product of it's time. Do you want to compare the immorality of the Quran to the immorality of the Bible? It's the same shit. But it's religion. Quote mining religious texts is a waste of time. No religious person follows their religion to the letter. Not even fundamentalists. They all find ways to interpret it in whatever way works best for them.

    https://www.evilbible.com/

    There used to be a www.evilquran.com

    am I just an idiot? I can't find it. Does anybody have the current link?
    What works best for the mainstream religions seems to be to honor a genocidal god and their homophobic and misogynous religions.

    I need know nothing else to recognize their evil ways.

    Regards
    DL

  7. Top | #107
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    MY religion is better than YOUR relgion.

    The root cause of a lot of conflict throughout history.

    It is all about an inflated sense of self importance.

  8. Top | #108
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post

    Lying messengers should be shot. Wrong information is worse than no information. This guy is nothing but a well of misinformation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Whatever Islam is, or any name you want to give to delusional people who follow Allah, they hold immoral tenets and are not a moral religion.

    Regards
    DL
    Sure. But it's also a product of it's time. Do you want to compare the immorality of the Quran to the immorality of the Bible? It's the same shit. But it's religion. Quote mining religious texts is a waste of time. No religious person follows their religion to the letter. Not even fundamentalists. They all find ways to interpret it in whatever way works best for them.

    https://www.evilbible.com/

    There used to be a www.evilquran.com

    am I just an idiot? I can't find it. Does anybody have the current link?
    What works best for the mainstream religions seems to be to honor a genocidal god and their homophobic and misogynous religions.

    I need know nothing else to recognize their evil ways.

    Regards
    DL
    Are you talking about Islam or Christianity now? They're pretty much identical on just the things you mentioned

  9. Top | #109
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    MY religion is better than YOUR relgion.

    The root cause of a lot of conflict throughout history.

    It is all about an inflated sense of self importance.
    If you are not better at anything, you would have that opinion, yes.

    When I say better, I can argue for it ata the moral level.

    When the mainstream crowed say it, you might have noted how they run from arguing their moral tenets.

    We do not use inquisitions. The not better do.

    Pick some of their moral tenets that I see as immoral and I will prove the excellence of Gnostic Christianity over the genocidal god loving side.

    Otherwise, stop wasting my time.

    Regards
    DL

  10. Top | #110
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post

    What works best for the mainstream religions seems to be to honor a genocidal god and their homophobic and misogynous religions.

    I need know nothing else to recognize their evil ways.

    Regards
    DL
    Are you talking about Islam or Christianity now? They're pretty much identical on just the things you mentioned
    Yes. They are the mainstream.

    I would include the Jews, but today they are small and mostly atheist, IMO, and they never used inquisitions or Jihads to grow their religion.

    Regards
    DL

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