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Thread: If Gods are Real, Where are They?

  1. Top | #121
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Calling out Isreal for its actions is nit anti semetiic. I liste d to an Israeli woman on BBC who wrote a book n the conservative Jewish propaganda.
    It's not. But calling out Israel for made up crimes is. I think what you are doing is well and truly antisemitism.

    My ex wife was a Hungarian/Isreali Jew who moved to Israel and then left, because she thinks it's an ideological and political mess where neither side seems to have any interest in solving the conflict.

    She gave me a pretty good insight into the conflict. She thought both sides sucked. She now prefers living in Sweden. She's an atheist and not the member of any temple.

    At this point the Palestinians are behaving as if they own the place and have no reason to negotiate with the Israeli Jews. And that's been the situation since 1948. While the Jews, for good reason, sees this as an existential fight for the survival of the Jewish race, unrelated to the plight of the Palestinians. It's not an environment where where solutions are likely to come. The Jewish consensus since long ago is that negotiating with the Palestinians is a waste of time. And I think they're probably correct.

    Most of what Israel does is just to minimize damage from Palestinians. If you could both to read about the situation for people living in Jerusalem you wouldn't see the wall as a war crime. Israelis is for most part just pragmatic.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    It was obvious for a long time with Netanyahu who finaly sad on caera Israel has a god given right to tale land from Palestinians. The ultra conservative Israelis mirror American Christian conservatives.
    He's also funded by American Christian conservative whack jobs. Netanyahu is a dick. I won't argue that.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    An Israeli professor wrote a book on how the Jewish narrative of an unbroken line back to Moses is false. It was a best seller in Israel.
    The Zionists who founded Israel were atheistic socialists. How much do you think they gave a shit about Moses? There are Orthodox Jews and other Jewish fanatics in Israel who are retarded, and most Israelis think they're annoying and stupid. My ex-wife's family had been atheists going back two generations.

    What brings Jews together is above all the pervasive antisemitism of the gentiles rather than the Torah.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    There is opposition in Israel, we only hear the conservative side /propaganda.
    You do? It's not hard to find other voices. Netanyahu is no longer the president, for good reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    As to ancient Hebrews, I had a thread on the 613 rules, one was an order to eradicate a rival group.
    Nobody in Israel cares.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Jews are no different than anyone else.
    Of course not. Of course they're like any other group of people. and now they're having to fight for their survival.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    We can go back to the Israeli invasion of Egypt in concert with Europeans. At that time there was no cause for Israel.
    Israel was in the lap of the Brits and dependent on British support for their survival. Of course they'd back up Great Britain.

  2. Top | #122
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarion Lathria View Post
    Where are some gods? Maybe they died. Yes, they said they were eternal. But saying so doesn't mean it is so. Hitler said the Wehrmacht was invincible. We know how that turned out. Maybe Leslie Fish was right when she had Ishmael say that gods need worship for food. Maybe when some gods stopped being worshiped they starved to death.

    Eldarion Lathria
    The harm that the genocidal god lovers and their homophobic and misogynous hoard should be remembered forever.

    Our hate for those religious qualities should never be forgotten, --- or the conduct forgiven or condoned, --- after enlightenment.

    Homophobes and the misogynous. Gotta love em.

    Regards
    To

  3. Top | #123
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    I would like to issue an apology. I always hate myself for biting in Israel/Palestine discussions. They never go anywhere and it's best not to even engage.

    I'm sorry.

  4. Top | #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    I would like to issue an apology. I always hate myself for biting in Israel/Palestine discussions. They never go anywhere and it's best not to even engage.
    Yeah, if the Internet has taught us nothing else, it is that online discussions about Palestine and Israel couldn't possibly be more fruitless. Even more fruitless than explaining why entropy doesn't disprove evolution.

  5. Top | #125
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    I would like to issue an apology. I always hate myself for biting in Israel/Palestine discussions. They never go anywhere and it's best not to even engage.
    Yeah, if the Internet has taught us nothing else, it is that online discussions about Palestine and Israel couldn't possibly be more fruitless. Even more fruitless than explaining why entropy doesn't disprove evolution.
    Wait what?!? Nonsense I say. Entropy does disprove evolution.

  6. Top | #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post

    Calling out Isreal for its actions is nit anti semetiic. I liste d to an Israeli woman on BBC who wrote a book n the conservative Jewish propaganda.

    It was obvious for a long time with Netanyahu who finaly sad on caera Israel has a god given right to tale land from Palestinians. The ultra conservative Israelis mirror American Christian conservatives.

    An Israeli professor wrote a book on how the Jewish narrative of an unbroken line back to Moses is false. It was a best seller in Israel.

    There is opposition in Israel, we only hear the conservative side /propaganda.

    As to ancient Hebrews, I had a thread on the 613 rules, one was an order to eradicate a rival group.

    Jews are no different than anyone else.

    We can go back to the Israeli invasion of Egypt in concert with Europeans. At that time there was no cause for Israel.

    There are positives and negatives for Israel like any nation. Netanyahu was an Israeli Trump, now gone.

    The founding of Israel as a safe haven for Jews post war is certainly understandable, but they still have to be accountable for actions.
    Your description of events is absurdly simplistic. Netanyahu as a conservative has to juggle the whims and wishes of the religious whackjobs in his country. All Trump needed to do was to not be a Democrat. As long as he did that he'd have the support of the Evangelicals, no matter how many pussies he grabbed. Netanyahu didn't have that luxury. I too think Netanyahu is a terrible person. I am a liberal. But, come on. You're full on antisemtic propaganda on this guy. The western left has a strong antisemetic streak in it. Don't be those guys. You can criticize Israel for all their faults, (there's plenty of them) without resorting to the crazy accusations for fantasy crimes.

    The Israeli constitution is a fully modern liberal democratic constitution that respects and protects basic human rights. While it's easy for Jews to get citizenship in Israel. It's not that hard for Palestinians with family connections to Israel to get citizenship either. It's like becoming a citizen in any western country.
    In this debate I must take the side of Mr. Bank 100%. His description seemed objective and did not contain a bit of anti-Semitism. (Which complete sentence did you find anti-Semitic, Dr. Z?)

    And to say that Israel "respects and protects basic human rights" is peculiarly wrong-headed ... unless you don't include the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank in the in-group of "humans."

  7. Top | #127
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swammerdami View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post

    Calling out Isreal for its actions is nit anti semetiic. I liste d to an Israeli woman on BBC who wrote a book n the conservative Jewish propaganda.

    It was obvious for a long time with Netanyahu who finaly sad on caera Israel has a god given right to tale land from Palestinians. The ultra conservative Israelis mirror American Christian conservatives.

    An Israeli professor wrote a book on how the Jewish narrative of an unbroken line back to Moses is false. It was a best seller in Israel.

    There is opposition in Israel, we only hear the conservative side /propaganda.

    As to ancient Hebrews, I had a thread on the 613 rules, one was an order to eradicate a rival group.

    Jews are no different than anyone else.

    We can go back to the Israeli invasion of Egypt in concert with Europeans. At that time there was no cause for Israel.

    There are positives and negatives for Israel like any nation. Netanyahu was an Israeli Trump, now gone.

    The founding of Israel as a safe haven for Jews post war is certainly understandable, but they still have to be accountable for actions.
    Your description of events is absurdly simplistic. Netanyahu as a conservative has to juggle the whims and wishes of the religious whackjobs in his country. All Trump needed to do was to not be a Democrat. As long as he did that he'd have the support of the Evangelicals, no matter how many pussies he grabbed. Netanyahu didn't have that luxury. I too think Netanyahu is a terrible person. I am a liberal. But, come on. You're full on antisemtic propaganda on this guy. The western left has a strong antisemetic streak in it. Don't be those guys. You can criticize Israel for all their faults, (there's plenty of them) without resorting to the crazy accusations for fantasy crimes.

    The Israeli constitution is a fully modern liberal democratic constitution that respects and protects basic human rights. While it's easy for Jews to get citizenship in Israel. It's not that hard for Palestinians with family connections to Israel to get citizenship either. It's like becoming a citizen in any western country.
    In this debate I must take the side of Mr. Bank 100%. His description seemed objective and did not contain a bit of anti-Semitism. (Which complete sentence did you find anti-Semitic, Dr. Z?)

    And to say that Israel "respects and protects basic human rights" is peculiarly wrong-headed ... unless you don't include the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank in the in-group of "humans."
    All the shit about the Torah and how Jews use it to justify their actions. It's a complete fantasy. Israel is driven by one main narratives, the Holocaust. It's the completely true and accurate realisation that the Holocaust happened. Jews can't trust anybody other than themselves. Now the Jews have a land of their own, and they'd better do everything they can to hold onto it, because it's the only way to prevent another Holocaust, in at least one country where Jews live. And before the Holocaust Jews were the victims of pogroms and all manner of antisemitic nastiness.

    The Zionist movement wasn't so much a project to dominate Palestine. It was a project to get away from antisemitic gentiles. Theodore Herzl was an atheistic socialist. He couldn't have given less of a shit about the Torah. And this was the core of the movement which managed to found the state of Israel. Notice how all the early Israeli leaders were all thoroughly secular. And this is still the case.

    The religious Jews are getting increasing power in Israel, but that's because religious groups are extremely well funded by crazy nutjob American Evangelical movements, who want all the Jews to return to the holy land for the second coming of Christ.

    When my ex wife moved to Israel in the 90'ies, as a university student, she could join a Jewish religious organization where she needed to show up for Torah study class an hour a week, and all her expenses would have been paid. She would have had free lodging and pocket money. She told them to fuck off and paid for her upkeep by working as a cleaner.

    That's the problem in Israel. Israel is a cork in a sea of International politics just hanging on for dear life.

    It can be compared to Islamophobes thinking all Muslims are monsters because they've found unsavory lines in the Quran. As if every Muslim is a fundamentalist.

    I think Jews is still the ethnic group with the highest rates of atheism in the world.

    Jews behaving badly in Israel aren't doing so because of the Torah. They're doing so because of Hitler They've received all the reminders they need that they can't afford to just chill and trust the charity of strangers. Steve not realizing this, and instead quote mining the Torah, I think sounds antisemitic.

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