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Thread: Rev. Sen. Raphael Warnock on Jesus Christ's resurrection

  1. Top | #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Toxic-evangelicals have no interest in following Jesus' teachings, they just want him for his body.
    In their defense, their holy book only has four books about Jesus, and they are pretty much repeating each other. So really, there is only one book in their holy book about Jesus's teachings, and there isn't even that much of that.

  2. Top | #12
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Toxic-evangelicals have no interest in following Jesus' teachings, they just want him for his body.
    In their defense, their holy book only has four books about Jesus, and they are pretty much repeating each other. So really, there is only one book in their holy book about Jesus's teachings, and there isn't even that much of that.
    There's a bit more to it than you're implying. John is very different from the Synoptics, and for an open-minded Christian, there are also other ancient gospels to consider. To say nothing of the all the other phillosophers and theologians who built on Christian themes over the centuries.

    We don't have much from Socrates either, and like Jesus he allegedly died a martyr's death, betrayed by friends and destroyed by religious conservatives. But he is nonetheless primarily valued for the thoughts he contributed, not for the sating of bloodlust his passing allowed. I wish more Christians saw their central personal figure - who borrowed a lot from Socratic thinking as it happens - in a similar light. As a counselor, rather than as a magical substance.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  3. Top | #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Toxic-evangelicals have no interest in following Jesus' teachings, they just want him for his body.
    This may be the most apt, and disturbing, summary of US evangelicals I've seen.

    Well done!

    I thought the message was rather bland and mild, but leave it to the religious wrong to get up in arms about it.

  4. Top | #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldtraveller View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Toxic-evangelicals have no interest in following Jesus' teachings, they just want him for his body.
    This may be the most apt, and disturbing, summary of US evangelicals I've seen.

    Well done!

    I thought the message was rather bland and mild, but leave it to the religious wrong to get up in arms about it.
    Yeah, props to Poli.
    Personally I am concerned that today's chocolate rabbits are usually hollow.

  5. Top | #15
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Rev. Sen. Warnock is much like Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., it seems.

    Writings show King as liberal Christian, rejecting literalism
    "King used to say, 'People think of me as a civil rights leader, but fundamentally, I'm a Baptist preacher,' " said Carson, editor of "Advocate of the Social Gospel," which is based on the newly disclosed writings and is the sixth book produced by the King Papers Project.

    ...
    King was not a conformist Christian. He not only eschewed literalism, he was a strident critic of how the Christian church perpetuated injustices such as slavery and segregation.

    "Too often has the church talked about a future good 'over yonder,' totally forgetting the present evil over here," King wrote in 1952 to Coretta Scott, his future wife.
    In short, "You'll get pie in the sky when you die, that's a lie" - from "The Preacher and the Slave"
    Any religion that professes to be concerned about the souls of men and not concerned about the city government that damns the soul, the economic conditions that corrupt the soul, the slum conditions, the social evils that cripple the soul, is a dry, dead, do-nothing religion in need of new blood," King preached in 1962 to his congregation at Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta.

    ...
    King didn't believe the story of Jonah being swallowed by a whale was true, for example, or that John the Baptist actually met Jesus, according to texts detailed in the King papers book. King once referred to the Bible as "mythological" and also doubted whether Jesus was born to a virgin, Carson said.

    ...
    King "wanted to develop an intellectually respectable form of Christianity that did not require people to simply abandon their rational, critical abilities," Carson said. The essential truth King saw, according to Carson, was the social gospel -- "to see the Bible as a message of spiritual redemption and global social justice."

    ...
    Carson also said King criticized the other extreme -- the belief that the Bible is purely a political text, devoid of faith.

    ...
    King went to seminary and received a doctorate from two bastions of liberal theology, Crozer Theological Seminary and Boston University, respectively. A professor told him that neither Moses nor the exodus were real -- an irony, given that King was called "new Moses" for his role during the civil rights era.

    ...
    "He saw all these theological discussions and hairsplitting about the factual discussion of the miracles as a huge distraction from the real business of Christians on Earth," said Lischer, who is not associated with the King Papers Project.
    MLK wrote the likes of
    "What Experiences of Christians Living in the Early Christian Century Led to the Christian Doctrines of the Divine Sonship of Jesus, the Virgin Birth, and the Bodily Resurrection" | The Martin Luther King, Jr., Research and Education Institute

  6. Top | #16
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Was Martin Luther King Jr. a Christian? – Discerning History says about him
    Unorthodox Theology

    Martin Luther King Jr’s theology was very liberal. In papers he wrote during his time at Crozer Theological Seminary he made his views clear. He said that the evidence for the Virgin Birth is “is too shallow to convince any objective thinker.” He stripped the doctrines of the divine sonship of Christ, the virgin birth and bodily resurrection of all literal meaning, saying, “we [could] argue with all degrees of logic that these doctrines are historically and [philosophically] untenable.” In another paper he wrote:

    [A] supernatural plan of salvation, the Trinity, the substitutionary theory of the atonement, and the second coming of Christ are all quite prominent in fundamentalist thinking. Such are the views of the fundamentalist and they reveal that he is oppose[d] to theological adaption to social and cultural change. … Amid change all around he is willing to preserve certain ancient ideas even though they are contrary to science.

    He did not believe these doctrines even though the Bible taught them. Instead he rejected them as superstition because they did not fit his notions of modern science. The doctrines he was rejecting are fundamental to Biblical Christianity.
    Quoting from
    "The Sources of Fundamentalism and Liberalism Considered Historically and Psychologically" | The Martin Luther King, Jr., Research and Education Institute
    The author then grumbled that
    His message would fall under the banner of black liberation theology – he preached a form of Christianity that was reworked to apply to physical freedom of the slaves. The central theme of his Christianity was not Jesus Christ, the son of God coming to earth, it was the deliverance of the Israel from their slavery in Egypt. In his famous “mountaintop” speech, when he was listing the seminal events of history, he mentioned the Exodus, not Christ’s death and resurrection.
    Susan Jacoby in "Freethinkers" claims that the Exodus is a prominent theme in the black church, and I concede that the analogy is good in a surprising way: American blacks' enslavers were overpowered by a force much more powerful than them: the Union Army.

    So RW faithfully follows MLK in that respect.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Evangelical theology is usually race-baiting trash from the word go, so I'm not surprised they would try to emphasize King's "unorthodoxy" (As though they themselves were somehow paragons of traditional church doctrine!). At the end of the day, they interpret the Bible so as to support white supremacy, not the other way around. The Biblical authors, most of them non-Europeans themselves, would have had no reaosn to try to fascist eurocentric ideologies in their compositions. Literalism is always a foil - what a person thinks a mystical text "obviously just says" usually speaks more to their prerogatives than any kind of study or contemplation.

    Funny how they feign horror at the "immorality" of King's adultery, at the same time as they laud Trump for his "masculinity" and "honesty" in the public press!
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  8. Top | #18
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    Susan Jacoby in "Freethinkers" claims that the Exodus is a prominent theme in the black church, and I concede that the analogy is good in a surprising way: American blacks' enslavers were overpowered by a force much more powerful than them: the Union Army
    Be careful to not to distance both the Hebrews and the Blacks from agency in their own liberation stories.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  9. Top | #19
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    I don't have a problem with Warnock's version of Christianity. I just wish he would have stepped down from his lead pastor role if he wants to remain a Senator. It's bad enough that the Republicans use religion as a way to gain votes and manipulate people. The Democrats don't need to compete with that. That's all I'll say since we aren't in the political forum.

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    Susan Jacoby in "Freethinkers" claims that the Exodus is a prominent theme in the black church, and I concede that the analogy is good in a surprising way: American blacks' enslavers were overpowered by a force much more powerful than them: the Union Army
    Be careful to not to distance both the Hebrews and the Blacks from agency in their own liberation stories.
    Fair enough. Both of them liberated themselves when their enslavers were weak enough.

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