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Thread: At least 8 dead in Mass Shooting du Jour

  1. Top | #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    Meanwhile in C Springs... shooting du Jour:

    (Link)COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — In a "senseless act of violence" early Sunday morning, a man drove to a birthday party at a mobile home, walked inside and started shooting, killing six people and himself, according to police.
    Let's see ya do THAT with a knife!
    Yay for 2A!
    This is pretty obviously a domestic, not a mass shooting.
    This distinction matters because ... ?

    Are the gun nuts willing to carve an exception to the 2A? Something like "Except when standing one's ground, only magazines with 20 rounds or less are permitted if shooting at family members."

  2. Top | #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swammerdami View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post

    This is pretty obviously a domestic, not a mass shooting.
    This distinction matters because ... ?

    Are the gun nuts willing to carve an exception to the 2A? Something like "Except when standing one's ground, only magazines with 20 rounds or less are permitted if shooting at family members."
    The point is that how to reduce domestics and how to reduce mass shootings are different issues. Hint: Domestics are substantially less likely to be with a firearm than murders in general.

  3. Top | #53
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    In America we have several columns for mass shootings. There are:

    • Angry students
    • Angry bigots
    • Angry Muslims
    • Angry at family or group of people (not related to race or religion)
    • Angry Males not getting enough
    • Seemingly Random
    • Psychopaths


    I could be missing some. This latest mass shooting gets chalked under the vile bigot column.

  4. Top | #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    The point is that how to reduce domestics and how to reduce mass shootings are different issues.
    Uh, not really. Where there are multiple fatalities there is very nearly ALWAYS a common factor you seem desperate to ignore: guns.

    Hint: Domestics are substantially less likely to be with a firearm than murders in general.
    Yeah, and the mass shootings that are "domestics" are somehow not the same as mass shootings that are ... what's the opposite of "domestics"? Foreigns?
    Mass shootings, foreign or domestic, are virtually impossible without guns in the hands of murderous individuals. Seems to me that they both lend to the same solution.

  5. Top | #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    The point is that how to reduce domestics and how to reduce mass shootings are different issues.
    Uh, not really. Where there are multiple fatalities there is very nearly ALWAYS a common factor you seem desperate to ignore: guns.

    Hint: Domestics are substantially less likely to be with a firearm than murders in general.
    Yeah, and the mass shootings that are "domestics" are somehow not the same as mass shootings that are ... what's the opposite of "domestics"? Foreigns?
    Mass shootings, foreign or domestic, are virtually impossible without guns in the hands of murderous individuals. Seems to me that they both lend to the same solution.
    The point is that since domestics are considerably less likely than other murders to use a gun it should be obvious that taking guns out of the picture isn't going to be a substantial limit on domestics. It might even increase them because it denies the woman who flees the ability to protect herself if he finds her.

  6. Top | #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Swammerdami View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post

    This is pretty obviously a domestic, not a mass shooting.
    This distinction matters because ... ?

    Are the gun nuts willing to carve an exception to the 2A? Something like "Except when standing one's ground, only magazines with 20 rounds or less are permitted if shooting at family members."
    The point is that how to reduce domestics and how to reduce mass shootings are different issues. Hint: Domestics are substantially less likely to be with a firearm than murders in general.
    Tainted data. Don't you have to murder before becoming a murderer? What about those who are morally capable of murdering someone but decides not to. Are they accounted for in the data set?

    Edit: Always wait for the edits with me. I mean how is it determined that a firearm is more likely used to murder a complete stranger (if that's what you meant)? I'm inclined to believe that most murders do not involve completely random people. There is a familiarity to some extent. Domestics are not just family, it also includes associates; like friends of a friend or other affiliations (like co-workers). To me, a nondomestic murder would be a foreigner coming to America and just killing people because they are Americans. Or a serial killer. Both being less often. This leads me to believe whatever data you're looking at must include minority report levels of nondomestic murders (yeah know, before it happens) for it to be less likely.

  7. Top | #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gospel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post

    The point is that how to reduce domestics and how to reduce mass shootings are different issues. Hint: Domestics are substantially less likely to be with a firearm than murders in general.
    Tainted data. Don't you have to murder before becoming a murderer? What about those who are morally capable of murdering someone but decides not to. Are they accounted for in the data set?

    Edit: Always wait for the edits with me. I mean how is it determined that a firearm is more likely used to murder a complete stranger (if that's what you meant)? I'm inclined to believe that most murders do not involve completely random people. There is a familiarity to some extent. Domestics are not just family, it also includes associates; like friends of a friend or other affiliations (like co-workers). To me, a nondomestic murder would be a foreigner coming to America and just killing people because they are Americans. Or a serial killer. Both being less often. This leads me to believe whatever data you're looking at must include minority report levels of nondomestic murders (yeah know, before it happens) for it to be less likely.
    "Domestic" refers to people of the same household.

    You're thinking of stranger vs known to the killer. (Note that many of the known to the killer murders are not associates, but rivals.)

  8. Top | #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    . It might even increase them because it denies the woman who flees the ability to protect herself if he finds her.
    Do statistics for this even exist? That is, do we know how many women have successfully fended off an abusive partner by using a gun to either intimidate away or shoot a potential attacker?

    I ask because gun people always being this out as an example as to why we can’t limit gun ownership or create waiting periods for purchasing firearms but is this a scenario that actually happens with any regularity?

  9. Top | #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gospel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post

    The point is that how to reduce domestics and how to reduce mass shootings are different issues. Hint: Domestics are substantially less likely to be with a firearm than murders in general.
    Tainted data. Don't you have to murder before becoming a murderer? What about those who are morally capable of murdering someone but decides not to. Are they accounted for in the data set?

    Edit: Always wait for the edits with me. I mean how is it determined that a firearm is more likely used to murder a complete stranger (if that's what you meant)? I'm inclined to believe that most murders do not involve completely random people. There is a familiarity to some extent. Domestics are not just family, it also includes associates; like friends of a friend or other affiliations (like co-workers). To me, a nondomestic murder would be a foreigner coming to America and just killing people because they are Americans. Or a serial killer. Both being less often. This leads me to believe whatever data you're looking at must include minority report levels of nondomestic murders (yeah know, before it happens) for it to be less likely.
    "Domestic" refers to people of the same household.

    You're thinking of stranger vs known to the killer. (Note that many of the known to the killer murders are not associates, but rivals.)
    Eeeek. I blame my inferior brain.

  10. Top | #60
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    Shooting in Miami. Neither a domestic nor a disgruntled worker but rather three shooters shooting up a rap party. So likely gang related.

    2 Dead, Over 20 Shot Following Event Outside NW Miami-Dade Venue: Police

    Quote Originally Posted by NBC Miami
    The shooting took place just after 12:30 a.m. at a release party for a local rap artist at El Mula banquet hall, located at 7630 Northwest 186th Street.
    [...]
    MDPD Director Freddy Ramirez said it appeared to be a targeted attack. People were standing outside the building when three shooters drove up in a white Nissan Pathfinder and began shooting into the crowd with assault rifles and handguns.
    "This was a despicable act of gun violence, a cowardly act, " said Ramirez.
    No arrests have been made at this time.

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