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Thread: Nagel's Batty Explanation of the Mind-Body Problem

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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    You experience a brain created representation of the table from reflected energy that has nothing to do with tables.

    Light is an anthropocentric term that describes the human reaction to the energy and nothing about the energy.
    what table?

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    Quote Originally Posted by none View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    You experience a brain created representation of the table from reflected energy that has nothing to do with tables.

    Light is an anthropocentric term that describes the human reaction to the energy and nothing about the energy.
    what table?
    The one that is heavy as you carry it.

    The table that has mass but can't be experienced.

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    I've carried tables. So I can experience what it is like to do so. Fortunately my eyes, muscles, joints, and nervous system provides me information and from that memory to which I can refer when seeing a table.

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  5. Top | #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    I've carried tables. So I can experience what it is like to do so. Fortunately my eyes, muscles, joints, and nervous system provides me information and from that memory to which I can refer when seeing a table.
    You need no memory to reach out and experience the resistance of the table.

    Any information YOU (a mind) have is a brain creation you are experiencing.

    The table is not in your head.

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    No one said the table was in my head. A wonderful thing about information is that it can be stored bit by bit in any substance that is capable of recording it if it is served by processes which can provide such information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    No one said the table was in my head. A wonderful thing about information is that it can be stored bit by bit in any substance that is capable of recording it if it is served by processes which can provide such information.
    The great thing about the creative brain are all the experiences it creates.

    It creates sound when no such thing exists in the external world.

    It creates tastes when molecules have no taste.

    It creates color even though objects have no color.

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Creates? Really? Explain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Swammerdami I agree a being is conscious, has a brain and nervous system, etc.

    However, consciousness is an aspect, attribute, of a being. It is not a separate thing, like are being parts brain and heart, from the being called consciousness. It's is the being's consciousness. Most of those here who use descriptors of parts like brain speak of it, the brain or consciousness, doing something that, in actuality, should be attributed to the being who is doing.

    The brain does not create consciousness, consciousness doesn't do, etc. Consciousness is a construct it is not a thing. Is it a subjective thing if anything at all. Even as subjective the consciousness doesn't do create, or anything else beyond serving as a construct to frame notion. Don't bless it as being alive or even an actual part of the being. Hypothetical construct! No more.

    That is what I call reductionist.

    I agree with untermensche that humans and many mammals exhibit what we call conscious behavior. It's just that we can't package create in the construct. Color may be expressed by beings somewhat differently under similar conditions that is not proof that a construct, called conscious, creates anything. Creation, if there is such a thing among living beings is a being thing, being created.
    This is along the lines of what I was getting at above, but worded a little better.

    Mentally most of us imagine that we are a unitary thing that perceives - hence why spirituality predominates across our history and culture, and even now we focus on how we are 'conscious' (what does that really mean?). But when you really observe and understand the functions of the body we are more like a multi-threaded, parallel processor that is constantly feeling and responding. But people have the feeling that they are a cohesive, acting agent (probably this is an evolved feature of our mental world).

    At the end of the day angst over determinism seems to predominate, but most of us forget that we are the thing that is deterministic. We are the thing that is determining. Does a bird get angsty over being a bird, or does it just keep on being a bird?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Creates? Really? Explain.
    When things could only exist as a creation, like the experience of pain and vision and smell and touch, it is irrational to assume they are not.

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