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Thread: Key Discoveries in the History of Science

  1. Top | #21
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    You did not come from your cousin.
    We came from our direct ancestors, however, who from the mid-Oligocene until the early Miocene, were all quite straightforwardly monkeys. We are all apes, and all apes are (or were, depending on your preferred naming conventions) monkeys. We are not and have never been chimps or gorillas, but we were definitely monkeys for millions of years, a fact which has many important implications for our anatomy, genetics, and social instincts.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  2. Top | #22
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    Not only did we absolutely come from monkeys, we are monkeys

  3. Top | #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Not only did we absolutely come from monkeys, we are monkeys
    The only thing I dislike about that particular styling is that, though instructive, it has a way of completely confusing students at the outset. I usually explain the whole tree with discrete Linnaean-style categories and time periods first, then explore the whole cladistic method of nomenclature once they've got the basics clearly down.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  4. Top | #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Not only did we absolutely come from monkeys, we are monkeys
    The only thing I dislike about that particular styling is that, though instructive, it has a way of completely confusing students at the outset. I usually explain the whole tree with discrete Linnaean-style categories and time periods first, then explore the whole cladistic method of nomenclature once they've got the basics clearly down.
    It is definitely confusing.

    Because modern monkeys are as close to those monkeys as we are.

    Modern monkeys did not go through an inferior evolutionary process and not change that much.

    They are all modern species.

    More evolved, more refined, than those ancient monkeys.

  5. Top | #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Not only did we absolutely come from monkeys, we are monkeys
    Agreed.

    Screeching, howling, bickering monkeys with nuclear weapons.

  6. Top | #26
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Not only did we absolutely come from monkeys, we are monkeys
    The only thing I dislike about that particular styling is that, though instructive, it has a way of completely confusing students at the outset. I usually explain the whole tree with discrete Linnaean-style categories and time periods first, then explore the whole cladistic method of nomenclature once they've got the basics clearly down.
    It is definitely confusing.

    Because modern monkeys are as close to those monkeys as we are.

    Modern monkeys did not go through an inferior evolutionary process and not change that much.

    They are all modern species.

    More evolved, more refined, than those ancient monkeys.
    This is an interesting mixture of true and false statements. It is certainly the case that modern and ancient monkeys are not identical with one another.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  7. Top | #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    It is definitely confusing.

    Because modern monkeys are as close to those monkeys as we are.

    Modern monkeys did not go through an inferior evolutionary process and not change that much.

    They are all modern species.

    More evolved, more refined, than those ancient monkeys.
    This is an interesting mixture of true and false statements. It is certainly the case that modern and ancient monkeys are not identical with one another.
    Of course I disagree.

    They are careful statements.

    Conservative.

  8. Top | #28
    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    It is definitely confusing.

    Because modern monkeys are as close to those monkeys as we are.

    Modern monkeys did not go through an inferior evolutionary process and not change that much.

    They are all modern species.

    More evolved, more refined, than those ancient monkeys.
    This is an interesting mixture of true and false statements. It is certainly the case that modern and ancient monkeys are not identical with one another.
    Of course I disagree.

    They are careful statements.

    Conservative.
    'Careful' and 'correct' are not synonyms.

  9. Top | #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    Of course I disagree.

    They are careful statements.

    Conservative.
    'Careful' and 'correct' are not synonyms.
    And claiming something is incorrect is not demonstrating it.

  10. Top | #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    It is definitely confusing.

    Because modern monkeys are as close to those monkeys as we are.

    Modern monkeys did not go through an inferior evolutionary process and not change that much.

    They are all modern species.

    More evolved, more refined, than those ancient monkeys.
    This is an interesting mixture of true and false statements. It is certainly the case that modern and ancient monkeys are not identical with one another.
    Of course I disagree.

    They are careful statements.

    Conservative.
    I don't see any statements from untermensche in this thread that are actually false. That modern monkeys changed as much as humans from Oligocene monkeys is no doubt false by some ways of measuring "changed as much" and true by other ways of measuring it, but I doubt there's an objective way of choosing between criteria.

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