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Thread: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

  1. Top | #71
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    steve_bank ---- What are those exactly,

    Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.

    I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

    The Christian reality.
    1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

    Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
    -----------

    The Gnostic Christian reality.
    Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
    [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

    "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

    If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

    Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

    [Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

    But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

    As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

    Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

    Candide.
    "It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

    That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

    Regards
    DL

  2. Top | #72
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    A naturalist, ok but what does that have to do with the price of eggs? Whay does yiur belif mean in any material sense?

    Can it help you build a bridge e or grow food?

    Worship nature or worship a creator or the spirit of a volcano, all the same to me.

    I came to be by a process of the universe. A cold fact. Nothing special. Whay anyone attches to it is mysthology and mysticism of various sorts.

    You are still rationalizing beliefs like Christians do. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that, we all rationalize our existence in one way or another. Just accept your rationalization is no better or worse than any else. It will alleviate a lot of stress.

    I always felt good about accomplishing something useful as an engineer contributing in my small way to the greater whole. Tht was enough for me.

    Other than calling me a fool, what is your point?

    In the interest of transparency and full dsiclosure I am at tines I am indeed foolish and ignorant. Anyone who claims to be above it all I an suspicious of and check to make sure I still have my wallet.

    My experience tells me people who preach from on high about the flaws of others has never had themselves and their beliefs actually tested by reality.

    Applying what you believe against the reality of living is the one and only test.

  3. Top | #73
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    A naturalist, ok but what does that have to do with the price of eggs? Whay does yiur belif mean in any material sense?

    Can it help you build a bridge e or grow food?

    Worship nature or worship a creator or the spirit of a volcano, all the same to me.
    Worship???

    You show how little of Gnostic Christianity you know. We am not idol worshiper.

    We see god as good laws and rules to live by. That is a bar that we are always eager to move higher than whatever we think today.

    I came to be by a process of the universe. A cold fact. Nothing special. Whay anyone attches to it is mysthology and mysticism of various sorts.
    Yes. Quite stupid.

    You are still rationalizing beliefs like Christians do.
    Yes. My rational works while theirs fails. Try looking harder.

    There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that, we all rationalize our existence in one way or another. Just accept your rationalization is no better or worse than any else. It will alleviate a lot of stress.
    Without you giving a decent argument against what I put, I see my arguments as superior. So do you given that you want to persuade with garbage instead or arguments. Looser.

    I always felt good about accomplishing something useful as an engineer contributing in my small way to the greater whole. Tht was enough for me.
    Many settle for small. Losers.

    Other than calling me a fool, what is your point?

    In the interest of transparency and full dsiclosure I am at tines I am indeed foolish and ignorant. Anyone who claims to be above it all I an suspicious of and check to make sure I still have my wallet.

    My experience tells me people who preach from on high about the flaws of others has never had themselves and their beliefs actually tested by reality.
    I am here for that. What issue would you liker to test?

    Applying what you believe against the reality of living is the one and only test.
    You have my overall view of this Earth being the best possible Earth, because it is the only possible Earth.

    IOWs, from my naturalist view, this here and now is the only possible heaven and hell as those are just our states of mind, which is all we can individually ever know, at any given point in time.

    Regards
    DL

  4. Top | #74
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    I don't need a' 'heaven' . The idea is a useful metaphor.


    Reality is what it is regardless of how we think about it.

    There is insight.

    Shakespeare, 'the fault is not in the stars, it is in us'. Stars referring to astrology.

    Bossism as I see differs from Christian's in that they believe the problem is on your own mind, not outside agents.

    I found Descartes and others useful in that what they had to say applied to what I did. A more modern philosopher is Popper on science.

    I do not exist in a vacuum ad I am not all knowing, I rely on others. I am as fallible, ignorant, and foolish as anyone, I have my moments. Thankully few and far between. That s why I belive in tolerancxe and diversuty and rehect any mono thought system tat excludes aothers.

    My real experience as an engineer over 30 years taught me that no body but nobody ever has all the answers all the time. It does not matter how much you know or how much experience you have.

    To me anyone who thinks they have all the right answers is foolish, and potentially dangerous. Trump for example. Pathologically unable to see the other side.

    Have your beliefs but acknowledge you may not have all the answers.

  5. Top | #75
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    Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers and not idol worshipers.

    I told you that god to us is rules and laws.

    If one is not thinking of improving those to where all live in peace, then he has settled for garbage and an end to our evolution in thinking.

    Extinction would be preferable to such mental stagnation.

    I noted your Gnostic post and will see you there.

    Regards
    DL

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