Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 73

Thread: American Democracy On Life Support

  1. Top | #1
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Birmingham, Alabama
    Posts
    3,078
    Archived
    4,109
    Total Posts
    7,187
    Rep Power
    82

    American Democracy On Life Support

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/lette...qVSysejaUpr1tw

    I think it was Ipetrich who made the comment that eventually we’ll just exhausted fighting the fascists and let them take over. This article discusses that point and interviews the authors of How Democracies Die. I read that book after Trump was elected. I think this will inevitably happen here. But it will be different. Democracy is dying in America because it has failed to deliver its promises. This is because our democratic process has been captured by an elite few who control it with their wealth. This in turn has been possible due to decades of very bad Supreme Court rulings that have favored wealth over people. The result has been decades of growing wealth inequality, and growing apathy among working class voters. They’re ripe for the picking by a fascist mindset like Trump.

    Don’t get me wrong, the real coup will be too hard to recognize when it happens. It happens through voter suppression bills, and through a thousand small ways, all whilst giving lip service to protecting freedom. In outward form, we will appear democratic, but it will be a repressive regime for those of us who disagree.

  2. Top | #2
    Veteran Member TV and credit cards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    muh-dahy-nuh
    Posts
    3,847
    Archived
    174
    Total Posts
    4,021
    Rep Power
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/lette...qVSysejaUpr1tw

    I think it was Ipetrich who made the comment that eventually we’ll just exhausted fighting the fascists and let them take over. This article discusses that point and interviews the authors of How Democracies Die. I read that book after Trump was elected. I think this will inevitably happen here. But it will be different. Democracy is dying in America because it has failed to deliver its promises. This is because our democratic process has been captured by an elite few who control it with their wealth. This in turn has been possible due to decades of very bad Supreme Court rulings that have favored wealth over people. The result has been decades of growing wealth inequality, and growing apathy among working class voters. They’re ripe for the picking by a fascist mindset like Trump.

    Don’t get me wrong, the real coup will be too hard to recognize when it happens. It happens through voter suppression bills, and through a thousand small ways, all whilst giving lip service to protecting freedom. In outward form, we will appear democratic, but it will be a repressive regime for those of us who disagree.
    Who?

    I agree with your closing statement. And long after it happens, that thirty-some percent who would faithfully follow Trump or another Trump-like creature will not even know they have lost their country as they will continue to measure politics in wins and losses. They've beaten the libbies will be their view for years to come.

    As for the Republican politicians themselves, I would hope a few more Murkowski/Romney types would stand up as the situation grows more dire. But I'm not holding my breath. I will always keep in mind, Sandy Hook is the standard of decency by which all Republicans should be judged. Besides, it looks like we are moving into a "fear of the mob" phase where it is not just a matter of worrying about being primaried but of their safety and that of their family.

    Joe Biden is doing a fair job of minimizing Trump and the inflamed rhetoric. Actually, were it not for Twitter banning Trump, I think this might be a total failure.

  3. Top | #3
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    5,086
    Rep Power
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/lette...qVSysejaUpr1tw

    I think it was Ipetrich who made the comment that eventually we’ll just exhausted fighting the fascists and let them take over. This article discusses that point and interviews the authors of How Democracies Die. I read that book after Trump was elected. I think this will inevitably happen here. But it will be different. Democracy is dying in America because it has failed to deliver its promises. This is because our democratic process has been captured by an elite few who control it with their wealth. This in turn has been possible due to decades of very bad Supreme Court rulings that have favored wealth over people. The result has been decades of growing wealth inequality, and growing apathy among working class voters. They’re ripe for the picking by a fascist mindset like Trump.

    Don’t get me wrong, the real coup will be too hard to recognize when it happens. It happens through voter suppression bills, and through a thousand small ways, all whilst giving lip service to protecting freedom. In outward form, we will appear democratic, but it will be a repressive regime for those of us who disagree.
    I agree that we are in dangerous times. I put the odds at 50-50 that Trump will win in 24. And if elected, I expect him to put people in power who won't let him lose an election again. However, I see no need to try to find a scapegoat here: the rich. The people voting in Trump and not wanting to follow the constitution are White middle class to lower class (non college educated people). There's far more wealth on the progressive side.

  4. Top | #4
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Local group: Solar system: Earth: NA: US: contiguous states westernmost - IOW here
    Posts
    14,882
    Archived
    18,213
    Total Posts
    33,095
    Rep Power
    65
    Are you nuts?

    One can't fathom how something is going to be done then detail how it's going to be done?

    We have no idea so lets target this as the one that will come to get us.

    When care and insight are required one tries to induce fear. Way to F'n go.

    Now is the time to use minds and pathfinding to staunch the flow of anger. Recruit some leaders to stand up as examples every time the fearful cave in would be my first option.

    Its not calm down time. It's how how reverse the process of fear time.

    I'm never for pointing fingers. It's all about setting examples.

  5. Top | #5
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    5,086
    Rep Power
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Are you nuts?

    One can't fathom how something is going to be done then details how it's going to be done?

    We have no idea so lets target this as the one that will come to get us.

    When care and insight are required one tries to induce fear. Way to F'n go.

    Now is the time to use minds and pathfinding to staunch the flow of anger. Recruit some leaders to stand up as examples every time the fearful cave in would be my first option.

    Its not calm down time. It's how how reverse the process of fear time.
    Sorry, I'm not following your post. Are you replying to me or to the thread title? I agree that the Trump voters are angry (if that is what you are trying to say). But I don't see them as ever caving in.

  6. Top | #6
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Birmingham, Alabama
    Posts
    3,078
    Archived
    4,109
    Total Posts
    7,187
    Rep Power
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/lette...qVSysejaUpr1tw

    I think it was Ipetrich who made the comment that eventually we’ll just exhausted fighting the fascists and let them take over. This article discusses that point and interviews the authors of How Democracies Die. I read that book after Trump was elected. I think this will inevitably happen here. But it will be different. Democracy is dying in America because it has failed to deliver its promises. This is because our democratic process has been captured by an elite few who control it with their wealth. This in turn has been possible due to decades of very bad Supreme Court rulings that have favored wealth over people. The result has been decades of growing wealth inequality, and growing apathy among working class voters. They’re ripe for the picking by a fascist mindset like Trump.

    Don’t get me wrong, the real coup will be too hard to recognize when it happens. It happens through voter suppression bills, and through a thousand small ways, all whilst giving lip service to protecting freedom. In outward form, we will appear democratic, but it will be a repressive regime for those of us who disagree.
    I agree that we are in dangerous times. I put the odds at 50-50 that Trump will win in 24. And if elected, I expect him to put people in power who won't let him lose an election again. However, I see no need to try to find a scapegoat here: the rich. The people voting in Trump and not wanting to follow the constitution are White middle class to lower class (non college educated people). There's far more wealth on the progressive side.
    But why are lower class whites supporting Trump? Simple. Because the Uber wealthy have controlled the political outcomes for too long resulting in larger and larger wealth inequality. Democracy no longer works for them. It represents only the interest of an elite few. That’s what makes them ripe for the picking by someone like Trump. This has been going on since the election of Ronald Reagan.

  7. Top | #7
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    5,086
    Rep Power
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/lette...qVSysejaUpr1tw

    I think it was Ipetrich who made the comment that eventually we’ll just exhausted fighting the fascists and let them take over. This article discusses that point and interviews the authors of How Democracies Die. I read that book after Trump was elected. I think this will inevitably happen here. But it will be different. Democracy is dying in America because it has failed to deliver its promises. This is because our democratic process has been captured by an elite few who control it with their wealth. This in turn has been possible due to decades of very bad Supreme Court rulings that have favored wealth over people. The result has been decades of growing wealth inequality, and growing apathy among working class voters. They’re ripe for the picking by a fascist mindset like Trump.

    Don’t get me wrong, the real coup will be too hard to recognize when it happens. It happens through voter suppression bills, and through a thousand small ways, all whilst giving lip service to protecting freedom. In outward form, we will appear democratic, but it will be a repressive regime for those of us who disagree.
    I agree that we are in dangerous times. I put the odds at 50-50 that Trump will win in 24. And if elected, I expect him to put people in power who won't let him lose an election again. However, I see no need to try to find a scapegoat here: the rich. The people voting in Trump and not wanting to follow the constitution are White middle class to lower class (non college educated people). There's far more wealth on the progressive side.
    But why are lower class whites supporting Trump? Simple. Because the Uber wealthy have controlled the political outcomes for too long resulting in larger and larger wealth inequality. Democracy no longer works for them. It represents only the interest of an elite few. That’s what makes them ripe for the picking by someone like Trump. This has been going on since the election of Ronald Reagan.
    I don't agree. For one, the working class white vote is just one group that is voting for Trump. But I think that they are far more motivated by social issues: abortion, gay marriage, religion and guns. They are trying to save the country from the godless socialists who want to take their guns. The left is not going to get this crowd back, nor should we try. The good news here is that their side is falling... But they are still a formidable voting block.

  8. Top | #8
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Georgia, US
    Posts
    5,567
    Archived
    3,862
    Total Posts
    9,429
    Rep Power
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post

    But why are lower class whites supporting Trump? Simple. Because the Uber wealthy have controlled the political outcomes for too long resulting in larger and larger wealth inequality. Democracy no longer works for them. It represents only the interest of an elite few. That’s what makes them ripe for the picking by someone like Trump. This has been going on since the election of Ronald Reagan.
    I don't agree. For one, the working class white vote is just one group that is voting for Trump. But I think that they are far more motivated by social issues: abortion, gay marriage, religion and guns. They are trying to save the country from the godless socialists who want to take their guns. The left is not going to get this crowd back, nor should we try. The good news here is that their side is falling... But they are still a formidable voting block.
    The above is certainly true, but a good amount of the wealthy also supported Trump due to his successful efforts at lowering their taxes. I personally know a few of them. They are just as difficult to reason with as someone with very little education. Having a lot of academic letters after one's name doesn't necessarily equate with good sense or superior intelligence. I've known some brilliant high school grads that had far more sense and intelligence than some with advanced degrees. Sadly, too many wealthy people only care about how much money they can accrue and how little taxes they must pay.

    Voter apathy is a huge problem in my state and probably in some other states. I've known people who voted for the first time in 2020 and some of them were well into middle age. Trump is what motivated them to finally vote in hopes of defeating him. That is probably how our two Democratic Senators in Georgia were able to defeat the Republican candidates.

    Will this continue? I sure hope so but as you all know, states like mine are doing everything they can get away with to make it more difficult for urban minorities, who tend to vote for Democrats, to vote. So, those who live in such areas must be very motivated to vote because they may either be waiting in lines for hours or they will need to request an absentee ballot early enough for it to be valid. And, voter apathy is much worse during the midterms here in Georgia.

    I can only hope that Stacey is able to do her magic and motivate people to vote. People like her may be our only hope. The Republicans are so afraid of her, that they've been doing everything possible demonize her, so her job will be more difficult than it was last time.

  9. Top | #9
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Birmingham, Alabama
    Posts
    3,078
    Archived
    4,109
    Total Posts
    7,187
    Rep Power
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post

    But why are lower class whites supporting Trump? Simple. Because the Uber wealthy have controlled the political outcomes for too long resulting in larger and larger wealth inequality. Democracy no longer works for them. It represents only the interest of an elite few. That’s what makes them ripe for the picking by someone like Trump. This has been going on since the election of Ronald Reagan.
    I don't agree. For one, the working class white vote is just one group that is voting for Trump. But I think that they are far more motivated by social issues: abortion, gay marriage, religion and guns. They are trying to save the country from the godless socialists who want to take their guns. The left is not going to get this crowd back, nor should we try. The good news here is that their side is falling... But they are still a formidable voting block.
    They didn’t vote for Romney or McCain who also favored such social issues. They came out in drove for trump because he wasn’t an establishment Republican. Trump was a way saying FU to the establishment of both parties who have failed to represent their interests for decades. If the Democratic system we have supported them and their rights they may have supported conservatives, but they wouldn’t have supported someone who is trying to destroy our democracy. That’s the point.

  10. Top | #10
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Georgia, US
    Posts
    5,567
    Archived
    3,862
    Total Posts
    9,429
    Rep Power
    85
    Imo, a good percentage of Trump supporters felt like liberal elites looked down on them so by voting for Trump they were "owning the libs". It certainly didn't help when Hillary called them deplorables. Sure, some of them probably are deplorable people but we would do better if we tried to understand where these people were coming from instead of judging them so harshly. As the words to an old song go...."when you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose". I assume that's why I still see Trump signs in front of little run down homes. I guess they feel like they have nothing to lose by voting for someone like Trump.

    Some Trump supporters were very religious people who are easily persuaded by a charismatic cult leader. While I don't find anything charismatic about Trump, apparently many people do. I think many if not most of those who attacked the capital on Jan. 6th, honestly believed they were doing what their leader wanted them to do. How they can still support him is beyond me, but I guess when one is being manipulated, it's hard to release oneself from the grip of the leader.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •