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Thread: The Swedish #MeToo movement took an unexpected turn

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    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    The Swedish #MeToo movement took an unexpected turn

    This article is in Swedish, but is the big news over here.

    https://www.svt.se/kultur/debattoren...oll-jag-pa-med

    The #MeToo movement in Sweden was among the most extreme in the world. It quickly became a witch hunt. Dozens of powerful men got kicked out of their jobs based on the flimsiest accusations.

    One journalist, Cissi Wallin, made a name of herself accusing one of Sweden's most influential journalists of rape with a very iffy accusation. I won't bore you all with the many details, but her accusations got thrown out of court, and he afterwards took her to court for defamation and won. This is very very hard in Sweden. Nowhere near USA or the UK. It's a big deal. Cissi Wallin throughout all this was unrepentent. Until Yesterday.

    Yesterday the leader of the Swedish #MeTook goes out in the press and admits wrongdoing. She admits she created an extreme witch hunt culture doing more damage than good. She admits that, while our legal system might have flaws, it's good the way it is.

    Nobody saw that coming.

    Anyhoo. It's big news in Sweden. And good news. Because #MeToo in Sweden went way too far. I'm Swedish but now lived in Denmark throughout #MeToo. So I had the advantage of being able to compare them. #MeToo in Denmark was awesome. It lead to a great public debate and a much needed conversation. It was tragic that it became so loony in Sweden.

    I hope now the country is given a chance to heal it's #MeToo wounds. And I hope it leads to some much needed cultural self reflection and conversation about how the fuck we let it go so out of hand. #MeToo should have been a good thing.

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    It takes more than one mia culpa to turn irrationality into mindfulness. From my persepective #Metoo is a flawed process since it emphasizes copying whenever something is perceived to anyone to be unfair. Touchy and feely are among emotive responses. Most always they are seen as more important than they are by those who experience them.

    That's one's culture at fault. As such its not suited to being cured by political action unless those who lead attitude setting want to correct material symptoms through social means. If one wants to enjoy parties one bans knives as fashion so number of assaults at these parties drop to zero for instance.

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    Tricksy Leftits Angry Floof's Avatar
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    Considering that women are and have been prey to violent men, among other things, for millennia, it's not a big deal if it went too far in Sweden. Often "too far" is what is needed to change anything. For eons, men have been saying, "Ok, yes, go ahead and criticize, but be nice about it." Fuck that. I'm not at all sorry that some powerful men got kicked out of power for their sexist comments or whatever thing you think is so mild and undeserving of them losing their jobs. I don't give a fuck about protecting powerful men. We should be open to whatever it takes to truly upend cultural acceptance of violence against women. There's more important things than some individual men feeling they have been treated unjustly by a women's movement they don't control.

    There is no limit to how many girls and women must suffer constant disrespect throughout our lives, from sick, predatory comments made by grown men toward little girls to violent, horrendous brutality and murder, for men to even speak up about it, much less try to change anything. So fuck those guys. They should have given them a kick in the balls on the way out, too.

    And the response to this will invariably be "Not fair! Don't expect us to be nice to you if you treat us badly." Again, we've heard that shit for eons. You're just well conditioned to repeat it any time you're uncomfortable with women fighting back.

    If women ever do change culture around the world into something that respects women and is led by women by at least half if not more, it will have to come with some real pain on the part of men. You can choose to be uncomfortable now and get serious about helping to make that change or you can suffer whatever comes later. And it's very likely you'll win and we women will again be subdued and treated like chattel around the world. But it's also quite possible that you won't, and if you don't win, many of you (and us) will suffer greatly for it because you, Just. Won't. Help. Us. And you have the luxury and privilege and power to do nothing.

    So yeah, I don't give a fuck about any man's discomfort due to women fighting back. False accusations are so rare as to be non-existent compared to the number of women harmed in some way every fucking day, every hour, every minute. It's a very small, tiny price to pay for humanity to become more humane.

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    Veteran Member Tigers!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    Considering that women are and have been prey to violent men, among other things, for millennia, it's not a big deal if it went too far in Sweden. Often "too far" is what is needed to change anything. For eons, men have been saying, "Ok, yes, go ahead and criticize, but be nice about it." Fuck that. I'm not at all sorry that some powerful men got kicked out of power for their sexist comments or whatever thing you think is so mild and undeserving of them losing their jobs. I don't give a fuck about protecting powerful men. We should be open to whatever it takes to truly upend cultural acceptance of violence against women. There's more important things than some individual men feeling they have been treated unjustly by a women's movement they don't control.
    Yes innocent until proved guilty is an important thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    There is no limit to how many girls and women must suffer constant disrespect throughout our lives, from sick, predatory comments made by grown men toward little girls to violent, horrendous brutality and murder, for men to even speak up about it, much less try to change anything. So fuck those guys. They should have given them a kick in the balls on the way out, too.

    And the response to this will invariably be "Not fair! Don't expect us to be nice to you if you treat us badly." Again, we've heard that shit for eons. You're just well conditioned to repeat it any time you're uncomfortable with women fighting back.

    If women ever do change culture around the world into something that respects women and is led by women by at least half if not more, it will have to come with some real pain on the part of men. You can choose to be uncomfortable now and get serious about helping to make that change or you can suffer whatever comes later. And it's very likely you'll win and we women will again be subdued and treated like chattel around the world. But it's also quite possible that you won't, and if you don't win, many of you (and us) will suffer greatly for it because you, Just. Won't. Help. Us. And you have the luxury and privilege and power to do nothing.

    So yeah, I don't give a fuck about any man's discomfort due to women fighting back. False accusations are so rare as to be non-existent compared to the number of women harmed in some way every fucking day, every hour, every minute. It's a very small, tiny price to pay for humanity to become more humane.
    I too, am not concerned if men who deserve to be be worse than discomforted are indeed so.
    But if the innocent are hurt then humanity is not becoming more humane.
    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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    Tricksy Leftits Angry Floof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    But if the innocent are hurt then humanity is not becoming more humane.
    You mean innocent men. Because the girls and women who are harmed every minute of every day are not innocent, right?

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    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    But if the innocent are hurt then humanity is not becoming more humane.
    You mean innocent men. Because the girls and women who are harmed every minute of every day are not innocent, right?
    You seem to not be able to view humans as individuals but rather as members of some identity group. To condemn all men because there are some bad ones is as absurd as condemning all women because there are some bad ones. And yes, there are some bad humans in both sexes.

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    Tricksy Leftits Angry Floof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    But if the innocent are hurt then humanity is not becoming more humane.
    You mean innocent men. Because the girls and women who are harmed every minute of every day are not innocent, right?
    You seem to not be able to view humans as individuals but rather as members of some identity group. To condemn all men because there are some bad ones is as absurd as condemning all women because there are some bad ones. And yes, there are some bad humans in both sexes.
    You seem to have no fucking clue about what I'm talking about.


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    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post

    You seem to not be able to view humans as individuals but rather as members of some identity group. To condemn all men because there are some bad ones is as absurd as condemning all women because there are some bad ones. And yes, there are some bad humans in both sexes.
    You seem to have no fucking clue about what I'm talking about.
    And you seem to have no fucking clue that people are individuals not robots required to act as a collective fulfilling whatever stereotype you have assigned to their "identity group".

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    Tricksy Leftits Angry Floof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post

    You seem to not be able to view humans as individuals but rather as members of some identity group. To condemn all men because there are some bad ones is as absurd as condemning all women because there are some bad ones. And yes, there are some bad humans in both sexes.
    You seem to have no fucking clue about what I'm talking about.
    And you seem to have no fucking clue that people are individuals not robots required to act as a collective fulfilling whatever stereotype you have assigned to their "identity group".
    And you have no idea how or what I think. But I'm glad this topic is triggering you. The main reason the world is still so violent and disrespectful to women is because that reality causes most men very little discomfort, no more than can be rationalized away and forgotten. Those few who actively fight with us, like Patrick Stewart, do so because they have traumatic personal experience. In Patrick's case, he grew up witnessing his father abusing his mother, and he did not turn out to be an abuser himself, which is often the case. But most men, pffth. Sure, they agree society should not be accepting and apathetic about violence against women, but then out of sight, out of mind.

    So this is good that you're outraged at my outrageous comments, so much that you bother to type out your outrage. There may be hope for you eventually.

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    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    And you seem to have no fucking clue that people are individuals not robots required to act as a collective fulfilling whatever stereotype you have assigned to their "identity group".
    And you have no idea how or what I think. But I'm glad this topic is triggering you. The main reason the world is still so violent and disrespectful to women is because that reality causes most men very little discomfort, no more than can be rationalized away and forgotten. Those few who actively fight with us, like Patrick Stewart, do so because they have traumatic personal experience. In Patrick's case, he grew up witnessing his father abusing his mother, and he did not turn out to be an abuser himself, which is often the case. But most men, pffth. Sure, they agree society should not be accepting and apathetic about violence against women, but then out of sight, out of mind.

    So this is good that you're outraged at my outrageous comments, so much that you bother to type out your outrage. There may be hope for you eventually.
    It isn't your hatred of men that I find sad and disturbing, it is your lumping of humans into identity groups and your inability to see people as individuals. This is the kind of dehumanization that has given the planet some of the worse atrocities. The Albanians were slaughtered because they were seen as the "identity group", Albanians rather than as humans that happen to be in Albania. Nazis could, without thinking, kill Jews because they had been put in the "identity group", Jew rather than seen as humans who happen to be Jewish. The same story for the Native Americans who were seen as an "identity group" rather than humans. etc, etc.

    Those who lump people into "identity groups" loose sight of those others' humanity. At that point they are all seen as whatever vile stereotype people want to assign to them. Such senseless hatred is a poison.

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