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Thread: Titanic II

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Titanic II

    Titanic II
    Welcome to the home of Titanic II
    Titanic II News – The nets biggest resource, by Malcolm Oliver

    Australian billionaire Clive Palmer wants to build an imitation of the RMS Titanic, that ill-fated ocean liner.

    That project was paused a few years ago from lack of financing, and it's now being restarted.

    This new ship will not be an exact duplicate of the original, for obvious reasons. It will have an additional deck with modern lifeboats and likely a lot of shops, much like present-day cruise ships. Many cruise-ship passengers go shopping while aboard their ships, while the most that the original Titanic had was its barbershop.

    But the Titanic II will have enough lifeboat capacity for everybody, unlike the original one, which had only 1/3 of the capacity. That was because the ship's designers expected some other ship to be nearby to help out, but that's not what happened, and many of the people aboard that ship died when the ship sank.

    The original Titanic was driven by coal-burning steam engines, while this new one will be driven by oil-burning diesel engines.

    The Titanic II will have azimuth thrusters, which can be rotated to move the ship sideways. It will also have bow thrusters built into its hull, for additional sideways thrusting and greater maneuverability.

    Not sure how much Titanic II will duplicate the original passenger accommodations, since the original Titanic had three passenger-accommodation classes, from the luxurious to somewhat cramped.

    Like the original Titanic, the Titanic II will look rather small compared to the largest present-day cruise ships.

    The original Titanic vs. the Oasis of the Seas:
    What Titanic OotS
    Length 269.1 m 360 m
    Beam 28.2 m 60.5 m
    Draft 10.5 m 9.322 m
    Height 42.8 m 72 m
    Decks 9 18
    Passengers 2,435 6,699
    Crew 892 2,181
    Total 3,327 8,880
    Speed 21 kn 24.5 kn
    Beam = width, draft = depth, height is above the waterline ("air draft")
    Speed is in knots, nautical miles / hr. 1 nm = 1.853 km = 1 minute of arc on the Earth's surface
    Titanic - Oasis of the Seas - Oasis of the Seas Fact Sheet | Royal Caribbean Press Center


    The OotS is 1/3 longer and twice as wide as the Titanic. Its decks extend upward to a little above the tops of the Titanic's funnels.

    Panamax - The original Titanic could easily fit into the Suez and Panama Canals, but the OotS can't.


    Another project has gotten farther along: Romandisea Titanic at a resort in Sichuan Province, China, far inland. It won't go anywhere but will be a tourist destination. But then again, China has imitations of the Eiffel Tower and Hallstatt village in the Alps.

    Unlike the Titanic II, its construction is proceeding.

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    Veteran Member Tigers!'s Avatar
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    So long as Titanic II avoids Iceberg II

    If in Melbourne, Australia and you want to experience the feeling https://titanic.com.au/
    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Titled link: Titanic Theatre Restaurant & Bar – Titanic Theatre Restaurant & Bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    So long as Titanic II avoids Iceberg II
    I think that they will be careful about that.

    Titanic II Building Cost Doubles – Titanic II News - datelined June 2

    Clive Palmer has hired ship-design firm Deltamarin, one that has done several large cruise ships. Senior Designer Fredrick Johansson of that company:
    Titanic II is a smaller ship, but a rather complex project so it’s very difficult to say. We haven’t started a detailed cost analysis.

    MR. Johansson said the most expensive aspect of the design would be making it an exact replica of the original Titanic and ensuring it was safe.

    Mr Johansson also said that Mr Palmer had never missed a payment to the naval architects.

    We haven’t had any problems with Blue Star Line. They have been very smooth in that respect. They have been a good client, he said.
    Though CP has stiffed the workers in a failed mining venture.

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    It's interesting that the Titanic has gotten such celebrity.

    If the Titanic had survived that iceberg, or had avoided it outright, it would never have gotten its celebrity. I think that it would likely have gone the way of its White Star sister ships, HMHS Britannic or even the RMS Olympic.

    The Britannic went into service in 23 December 1915 in WWI, and when in the Aegean Sea, it hit a mine and sank in 21 November 1916.

    The Olympic went into service in 14 June 1911, and it stayed in service until 5 April 1935, when it was scrapped. It served as a troopship in WWI, and it became nicknamed "Old Reliable".

    The Olympic survived several collisions with other ships and submarines.

    In 20 September 1911, it collided with the British cruiser HMS Hawke. The two ships were running parallel to each other, then the Olympic turned starboard and cut in front of the Hawke. The warship ran into the Olympic's stern, making two sizable holes and twisting that side's propeller shaft. Two of the ship's compartments flooded, but the ship made it to a nearby port on its own power. The Hawke's bow was flattened, and it nearly capsized. But nobody was seriously injured or killed.

    For World War I, the ship was given some big guns and put into service as a troopship. It was painted a "dazzle" camouflage scheme to give it a confusing appearance.

    Early in 12 May 1918, as the ship headed to France, its crew saw a German submarine, U-103, on the surface. The ships' gunners fired on the sub, and the ship's steersman turned the ship to ram the sub, but the sub dived. The ship's port propeller cut through the sub's hull, and the sub's crew scuttled their boat and abandoned it. The Olympic continued onward to Cherbourg, but the USS Davis picked up 31 survivors.

    German submarines are often called U-boats, a half-translation of German U-boot, short for Unterseeboot, "undersea boat".

    "During the war, Olympic is reported to have carried up to 201,000 troops and other personnel, burning 347,000 tons of coal and travelling about 184,000 miles (296,000 km)." And was nicknamed "Old Reliable".

    After the war, the ship was returned to civilian duty and converted from coal burning to oil burning. "During the conversion work and drydocking, a dent with a crack at the centre was discovered below her waterline which was later concluded to have been caused by a torpedo that had failed to detonate."

    During the 1920s, Olympic remained a popular and fashionable ship, and often attracted the rich and famous of the day; Marie Curie, Charlie Chaplin, Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks, and Prince Edward, then Prince of Wales, were among the celebrities that she carried.[106] Prince Edward and Captain Howarth were filmed on the bridge of Olympic for Pathé News.[107] According to his autobiography,[108] Cary Grant, then 16-year-old Archibald Leach, first set sail to New York on Olympic on 21 July 1920 on the same voyage on which Douglas Fairbanks and Mary Pickford were celebrating their honeymoon. One of the attractions of Olympic was the fact that she was nearly identical to Titanic, and many passengers sailed on Olympic as a way of vicariously experiencing the voyage of Olympic's sister ship.[109]
    On 22 March 1924, the Olympic collided with a smaller ocean liner, the Fort St. George, as it backed out of its berth in NYC's harbor. The Fort St. George suffered heavy damage, but the Olympic suffered much less, though more than it at first seemed. Its rudder frame needed a lot of repairs.

    On 15 May 1934, the Olympic collided with yet another ship, the lightship LV-117 just south of the Nantucket Shoals off of Nantucket Island southeast of mainland Massachusetts. A lightship is a ship that acts as a lighthouse. The Olympic had been homing on on the Nantucket's radio beacon when it ran into some thick fog. As a precaution, it slowed down and changed course. But when the lightship became visible to the liner, it was dead ahead. The liner's crew turned the rudder to full port and the engines to full astern, and they closed the ship's bulkhead doors. But it was too late. The Olympic rammed the lightship.

    The liner's passengers barely noticed the collision, but the lightship was heavily damaged and it soon sunk. The Olympic put out 3 lifeboats and recovered 7 of the lightship's 11 crewmembers, though 3 of those 7 died aboard the Olympic.

    The Olympic suffered very minor damage, mostly some dented hull plates.

    "By the time of her retirement, Olympic had completed 257 round trips across the Atlantic, transporting 430,000 passengers on her commercial voyages, travelling 1.8 million miles."

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    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    The Titanic was one of three big ocean liners built by the British company White Star Line to compete for transatlantic passengers.

    The Olympic, Titanic, and Britannic had very similar dimensions:
    • Tonnage (volume): Olympic: 45,324, (1913) 46,358 (1920) 46,439, Titanic: 46,328, Britannic: 48,158 - Gross Register Tons - 128 K cubic meters
    • Displacement (mass): Olympic: 52,067, Titanic 52,310, Britannic 53,200 - English-unit tons - 47 K metric tons
    • Length: 882 ft 9 in - 269.0 m
    • Beam (width): 94 ft - 28.7 m
    • Height (keel to funnel tops): 175 ft - 53.4 m
    • Draft (keel to waterline): 34 ft 7 in - 10.5 m
    • Depth (keel to hull top): 64 ft 6 in - 19.7 m
    • Decks: 9
    • Capacity: roughly 3,300 people

    Units: 1 Gross Register Ton = 100 ft^3 = 2.84 m^3

    The White Star Line's biggest rival was the Cunard Line, and it also built some big ships back then, the Mauretania (1907-1934) the Lusitania (1907-1915), and the Aquitania (1914-1950). Notice the name theme: former western provinces of the Roman Empire: Algeria + Morocco, Portugal + W Spain, SW France.
    • Tonnage (volume): Mauretania: 31,938, Lusitania: 31,550, Aquitania: 45,647 -- 90 K, 130 K m^3
    • Displacement: Lusitania: 44,767 -- 41 K mt
    • Length: Mauretania: 790 ft - 240.8 m, Lusitania: 787 ft - 239.9 m, Aquitania: 901 ft - 274.6 m
    • Beam: Mauretania: 88 ft - 26.8 m, Lusitania: 87 ft - 26.5 m, Aquitania: 97 ft - 29.6 m
    • Height (waterline to boat deck): Lusitania: 60 ft - 18.3 m
    • Height (waterline to aerials): Lusitania: 165 ft - 60.3 m
    • Draft: Mauretania: 33.5 ft - 10.1 m, Lusitania: 33.6 ft - 10.2 m, Aquitania: 36 ft - 11.0 m
    • Depth (waterline to hull top): Mauretania 33.5 ft - 10.2 m
    • Decks: Mauretania: 8, Lusitania: 9, Aquitania 10
    • Capacity: Mauretania, Lusitania: roughly 3,000, Aquitania: roughly 4,100

    The Mauretania was the biggest ship in the world before the launching of the Olympic and then the Titanic.

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    There was a SS France (1912-1936) run by the French company Compagnie Générale Transatlantique (CGT). Though the company's biggest ship for some decades, it was smaller than all six of the ships I'd mentioned earlier.
    • Tonnage: 24,666 - 70 K m^3
    • Length: 711 ft 11 in - 217 m
    • Beam: 78 ft 4 in - 23.88 m


    Germany also got into this race with its SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse (Kaiser Wilhelm the Great, 1897-1914), SS Kronprinz Wilhelm (Crown Prince Wilhelm, became USS von Steuben, 1901-1919), SS Kaiser Wilhelm II (became USS Agamemnon, 1903-1919), SS Kronprinzessin Cecilie (Crown Princess Cecile, because USS Mt. Vernon, 1906-1919), SS Imperator (Latin: "commander, emperor", became RMS Berengaria of the Cunard Line, 1913-1938), SS Vaterland ("fatherland", became SS Leviathan of the United States Lines, 1914-1933), SS Bismarck (became RMS Majestic of the White Star Line, 1922-1939). Several of these ships were seized as war reparations in World War I.
    • Tonnage: KWdG: 14,349, KPW 14,908, KWII 19,361, KPC 19,400, Imperator 52,117, Vaterland 54,282, Bismarck 56,551
    • Displacement: KWdG: 24,700, KPW 24,900, KWII 25,940
    • Length: KWdG: 655 ft - 200 m, KPW 663.30 ft - 202.17 m, KWII 706 ft 3 in - 215.27 m, KPC 706 ft 4 in - 215.29 m, Imperator 906 ft - 276 m, Vaterland 950 ft - 289.6 m, Bismarck 956.0 ft - 291.4 m
    • Beam: KWdG: 65 ft 9.6 in - 20.056 m, KPW 66 ft - 20 m, KWII 72 ft 3 in - 22.02 m, KPC 72 ft 2 in - 22.0 m, Imperator 98 ft 3 in - 29.95 m, Vaterland 100 ft 4 in - 30.6 m, Bismarck 110.1 ft - 30.5 m
    • Draft: 27 ft 11 in - 8.51 m, KPW 28 ft - 8.5 m, KWII 29 ft 10 in - 9.09 m, KPC 31 ft 1 in - 9.47 m, Imperator 75 ft 2 in - 10.72 m, Vaterland 37 ft 9 in - 11.51 m, Bismarck 36 ft - 11.0 m
    • Decks: Imperator: 11

    When it went into service, the Imperator superseded the Olympic and the Titanic as the biggest ship in the world.

    The White Star Line merged with the Cunard Line in 1934, and the Cunard Line was acquired by the Carnival Corporation in 1998, though the Cunard Line continues as a Carnival brand.

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Here are some other notable passenger-ship disasters.

    The White Star Line started with six Oceanic-class ocean liners: RMS Oceanic (1871-1895), SS Atlantic (1871-1873), SS Baltic (1871-1898), SS Adriatic (1872, 1899), SS Republic (1872-1910), SS Celtic (1872-1898)

    All six ships ere very similar, being 4-mast steamer-sailers. The Oceanic's dimensions:
    • Tonnage: 3,707 GRT - 11 K m^3
    • Displacement (loaded); 7,940 tons - 7,200 mt
    • Length: 420 ft 4 in - 128.12 m
    • Beam: 40 ft 10 m - 12.45 m
    • Draft: 31 ft 5 in - 9.58 m
    • Decks (the Atlantic): 4
    • Capacity: 1,300

    From Wikipedia:
    On March 20, 1873, Atlantic departed on her 19th voyage from Liverpool with 952 people on board,[1] of whom 835 were passengers, and 14 stowaways. En route, because of heavy seas and strong headwinds slowing their progress, Captain James Williams became concerned that they would run out of coal for the boilers before reaching New York.[1] They in fact had more than enough remaining fuel, but the ship's engineer had been purposefully under-reporting coal reserves to increase the margin for error in favor of safety. Thus convinced they were short of coal—and unable to hoist sail as a backup because of the strong headwind—the captain decided to divert to Halifax, Nova Scotia, to refuel.[1]

    During the approach to Halifax on the evening of 31 March, the captain and third officer were on the bridge until midnight while Atlantic made her way through a storm, proceeding at 12 knots (22 km/h) for the entrance of Halifax harbour, experiencing intermittent visibility and heavy seas. Unbeknownst to the crew or passengers, winds and currents had put Atlantic approximately 12+1⁄2 miles (20.1 km) off-course to the west of Halifax Harbour. Because almost none of the crew had ever been to Halifax before, they were unaware of the dangers of the approach; no one took soundings, posted a masthead lookout, reduced speed, or woke the captain as they approached the unfamiliar coast. They did not spot the Sambro Lighthouse, the large landfall lighthouse which warns mariners of the rocky shoals to the west of the harbour entrance. As the night wore on without any sight of the lighthouse, the helmsman—the only crew member familiar with Halifax—became convinced that something was wrong, and relayed his concerns to the officers on duty, but was ultimately ignored.

    At 3:15 a.m. local time on April 1, 1873, Atlantic struck an underwater rock ("Golden Rule Rock") off Marr's Head, Meagher's Island (now Mars Head, Mars Island), Nova Scotia.[5][6][7] All 10 lifeboats were lowered by the crew but were all washed away or smashed as the ship quickly filled with water and partially capsized. Survivors were forced to swim or climb ropes first to a wave-swept rock and then to a barren shore. Residents of the tiny fishing village of Lower Prospect and Terence Bay soon arrived to rescue and shelter the survivors, but at least 535 people died, leaving only 429 survivors.[8][9] The ship's manifest indicates that of the 952 aboard, 156 were women and 189 were children (including two who had been born during the voyage). All women and all children perished except for one twelve-year-old boy, John Hindley. Ten crew members were lost, while 131 survived.[10] This was the worst civilian loss of life in the North Atlantic until the wreck of La Bourgogne on 2 July 1898. The Canadian government inquiry concluded with the statement, "the conduct of Captain Williams in the management of his ship during the twelve or fourteen hours preceding the disaster, was so gravely at variance with what ought to have been the conduct of a man placed in his responsible position."

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    The White Star Line got a second ship named Republic in 1903, but it sank in 1909 after a collision with another ship, the SS Florida.
    • Tonnage: 15,400 GRT
    • Length: 570.0 ft - 173.7 m
    • Beam: 67.8 ft - 20.7 m
    • Draft: 34 ft 1 in - 10.39 m
    • Capacity: 3,100

    From Wikipedia,
    In early morning of 23 January 1909, while sailing from New York City to Gibraltar and Mediterranean ports with 742 passengers and crew and Captain Inman Sealby (1862–1942) in command, Republic entered a thick fog off the island of Nantucket, Massachusetts.

    Taking standard precautions and maintaining her speed, the steamer regularly signaled her presence in the outbound shipping traffic lane by whistle. At 5:47 a.m., another whistle was heard and Republic's engines were ordered to full reverse, and the helm put "hard-a-port". Out of the fog, the Lloyd Italiano liner SS Florida appeared and hit Republic amidships on her portside, at about a right angle. Two passengers asleep in their cabins on Republic were killed when Florida's bow sliced into her, liquor wholesale manager Eugene Lynch's wife Mary and banker William J. Mooney. Eugene Lynch was critically injured and died as a result of his injuries at Long Island College Hospital, Brooklyn, 26 January. On Florida, three crewmen were also killed when the bow was crushed back to a collision bulkhead.[4] Six people died in total.

    The engine and boiler rooms on Republic began to flood, and the ship listed. Captain Sealby led the crew in calmly organizing the passengers on deck for evacuation. Republic was equipped with the new Marconi wireless telegraph system, and became the first ship in history to issue a CQD distress signal, sent by John R. Binns.[5] Florida came about to rescue Republic's complement, and the U.S. Revenue Cutter Service cutter Gresham[6] responded to the distress signal as well. Passengers were distributed between the two ships, with Florida taking the bulk of them, but with 900 Italian immigrants already on board, this left the ship dangerously overloaded.

    The White Star liner Baltic, commanded by Captain J. B. Ranson, also responded to the CQD call, but due to the persistent fog, it was not until the evening that Baltic was able to locate the drifting Republic. Once on-scene, the rescued passengers were transferred from Gresham and Florida to Baltic. Because of the damage to Florida, that ship's immigrant passengers were also transferred to Baltic, but a riot nearly broke out when they had to wait until first-class Republic passengers were transferred. Once everyone was on board, Baltic sailed for New York.
    At the time, ships were not required to have enough lifeboats for all the passengers. It was expected that there would be some other ships nearby to assist a stricken ship, and that the lifeboats would be for ferrying passengers to some other ships. That scenario played out well for the Republic, and out of 742 people on board, only 3 died, and those people died as a result of the collision itself.

    This scenario did not play out well for the Titanic, and nearby ships arrived too late. Of the roughly 2,200 people on board, only 710 survived.

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Two years after the Titanic sank, the RMS Empress of Ireland (1906-1914) did so.
    • Tonnage: 14,191 GRT
    • Length: 570 ft - 170 m
    • Beam: 65.7 ft - 20.0 m
    • Draft: 36.7 ft - 11.2 m
    • Capacity: 1,915

    On 1914 May 18, the ship departed from Quebec City CA on its way to Liverpool UK. A little after midnight, the Empress of Ireland's crew saw a nearby ship, the Storstad, and that ship's crew did likewise. But a fog came in, and the ships' crews used their ships' horns to advertise their positions. But a bit before 2 am local time, the Storstad rammed the EoI amidships on its starboard side, and the ship quickly became flooded.

    Adding to that trouble was that the EoI's compartments' bulkhead doors were left open, allowing water to flood the ship's compartments along the length of the ship. It was beneath the water in 15 minutes, and 1,012 of the 1,477 people on board died, with 465 survivors, about 1/3 of the ship's total.

    This was comparable to the fraction that survived the sinking of the Titanic: 710 out of some 2,224, with some 1,514 dying. The EoI sank much faster than the Titanic, which took some 2 1/2 hours before it was completely underwater.

    The Empress of Ireland had a sister ship, the Empress of Britain (1906-1930).

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