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Thread: The heartbreaking reality of a teenage girl's sex life

  1. Top | #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    Those are not the only options available, even if there is not decent sex education in schools. Parents can talk to their kids, although the kids generally prefer that they not, even more than the parents prefer not. Most important parts of sex education are at home, with how people treat one another—how affection, love, respect and even anger. Then there is the whole biology parts.
    This is something sorely lacking, and I believe it is rapidly becoming an intergenerational problem. Parents don't know what to say to their children, becuase precious little was ever taught to them either.
    This is true. It's also true that kids are often...embarrassed and do not want to hear anything sex or birth control related from their parents.

    Which brings us back full circle to the damage that the easy availability of porn is doing to current young people. The thread title specifies the harm that's being done to teenage girls and I agree, strongly. But I think it's also doing harm to boys who aren't getting the right information and messages that will help them become happy people capable of strong, fulfilling relationships. If 12 or 14 year old boys think that random girls are supposed to blow them (this starts in middle school, btw) and that girls like being overpowered, that consent isn't an issue, that they are supposed to knock girls around during or to get sex, that it's great for guys to pile up on a girl, that they are 'supposed' to get whatever sex act they think of on demand, it seems as though boys are being cheated out of the opportunity to have a loving and fulfilling relationship that includes sex with girls.

    The subject of the OP isn't new, btw. Even Law and Order did some episodes about it.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5724765/

    https://www.wbur.org/npr/472211301/g...about-pleasure

    https://qz.com/674336/the-revolution...een-girls-too/

    When both boys and girls expect girls to endure physical pain for their partners’ benefit, it’s clear that we need to change the way we talk about sex—starting with the idea that it’s supposed to feel good for everyone involved.
    Girls & Sex makes a strong case for changing the way Americans approach sex education. “When kids go into puberty education classes, they learn that boys have erections and ejaculations and girls have periods and unwanted pregnancies,” Orenstein tells Quartz. Many parents are equally guilty of this kind of framing, whether out of moral concern or simple embarrassment. “In the US, we emphasize danger and risk. The Dutch talk about responsibility and joy.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    This is true. It's also true that kids are often...embarrassed and do not want to hear anything sex or birth control related from their parents.

    Which brings us back full circle to the damage that the easy availability of porn is doing to current young people. The thread title specifies the harm that's being done to teenage girls and I agree, strongly. But I think it's also doing harm to boys who aren't getting the right information and messages that will help them become happy people capable of strong, fulfilling relationships. If 12 or 14 year old boys think that random girls are supposed to blow them (this starts in middle school, btw) and that girls like being overpowered, that consent isn't an issue, that they are supposed to knock girls around during or to get sex, that it's great for guys to pile up on a girl, that they are 'supposed' to get whatever sex act they think of on demand, it seems as though boys are being cheated out of the opportunity to have a loving and fulfilling relationship that includes sex with girls.
    Well, yeah. Obviously sympathy lies most appropriately with victims. But being a sexual abuser is no great life either. Particularly if you get caught. We may not teach boys how to stay off of the registered sex offenders list, but there is no forgiveness, no end to the punishment, when one is on it. An automatic life sentence that will determine employment and domicile for the rest of your life. If you do not wind up an overt criminal, you still have relationships in your life that are based on violence instead of love and respect, a lonely place. So we do no favors to anyone when we do not teach our children, of any genders, the most basic ideas about sexual violence and consent.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    This is true. It's also true that kids are often...embarrassed and do not want to hear anything sex or birth control related from their parents.

    Which brings us back full circle to the damage that the easy availability of porn is doing to current young people. The thread title specifies the harm that's being done to teenage girls and I agree, strongly. But I think it's also doing harm to boys who aren't getting the right information and messages that will help them become happy people capable of strong, fulfilling relationships. If 12 or 14 year old boys think that random girls are supposed to blow them (this starts in middle school, btw) and that girls like being overpowered, that consent isn't an issue, that they are supposed to knock girls around during or to get sex, that it's great for guys to pile up on a girl, that they are 'supposed' to get whatever sex act they think of on demand, it seems as though boys are being cheated out of the opportunity to have a loving and fulfilling relationship that includes sex with girls.
    Well, yeah. Obviously sympathy lies most appropriately with victims. But being a sexual abuser is no great life either. Particularly if you get caught. We may not teach boys how to stay off of the registered sex offenders list, but there is no forgiveness, no end to the punishment, when one is on it. An automatic life sentence that will determine employment and domicile for the rest of your life. If you do not wind up an overt criminal, you still have relationships in your life that are based on violence instead of love and respect, a lonely place. So we do no favors to anyone when we do not teach our children, of any genders, the most basic ideas about sexual violence and consent.
    This is all true and perhaps this is what it will take to motivate adults to take serious measures to provide better education for boys and girls about what sex is and is not and what is and is not ok. In my view, sex is supposed to give pleasure to all participants and not to cause harm to any participant.

    I guess I was just thinking about the emotional and physical ramifications, rather than the legal ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    This is true. It's also true that kids are often...embarrassed and do not want to hear anything sex or birth control related from their parents.

    Which brings us back full circle to the damage that the easy availability of porn is doing to current young people. The thread title specifies the harm that's being done to teenage girls and I agree, strongly. But I think it's also doing harm to boys who aren't getting the right information and messages that will help them become happy people capable of strong, fulfilling relationships. If 12 or 14 year old boys think that random girls are supposed to blow them (this starts in middle school, btw) and that girls like being overpowered, that consent isn't an issue, that they are supposed to knock girls around during or to get sex, that it's great for guys to pile up on a girl, that they are 'supposed' to get whatever sex act they think of on demand, it seems as though boys are being cheated out of the opportunity to have a loving and fulfilling relationship that includes sex with girls.
    Well, yeah. Obviously sympathy lies most appropriately with victims. But being a sexual abuser is no great life either. Particularly if you get caught. We may not teach boys how to stay off of the registered sex offenders list, but there is no forgiveness, no end to the punishment, when one is on it. An automatic life sentence that will determine employment and domicile for the rest of your life. If you do not wind up an overt criminal, you still have relationships in your life that are based on violence instead of love and respect, a lonely place. So we do no favors to anyone when we do not teach our children, of any genders, the most basic ideas about sexual violence and consent.
    This is all true and perhaps this is what it will take to motivate adults to take serious measures to provide better education for boys and girls about what sex is and is not and what is and is not ok. In my view, sex is supposed to give pleasure to all participants and not to cause harm to any participant.

    I guess I was just thinking about the emotional and physical ramifications, rather than the legal ones.
    I agree. Though, it's not just pornography, which after all responds as much to popular tastes as much it does model them. I don't think people of the elder generation realize to what extent the current youthful skepticism toward marriage is a direct result of their toxic beliefs about gender/power and what kind of behaviors were therefore modeled for their kids and grandkids as the "natural" shape and outcome of a long term supposedly-monogamous relationship. To some extent, I feel that pornography it to some extent being used as a scapegoat to obscure some deeper and more fundamental problems of toxic masculinity.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    This is all true and perhaps this is what it will take to motivate adults to take serious measures to provide better education for boys and girls about what sex is and is not and what is and is not ok. In my view, sex is supposed to give pleasure to all participants and not to cause harm to any participant.

    I guess I was just thinking about the emotional and physical ramifications, rather than the legal ones.
    I agree. Though, it's not just pornography, which after all responds as much to popular tastes as much it does model them. I don't think people of the elder generation realize to what extent the current youthful skepticism toward marriage is a direct result of their toxic beliefs about gender/power and what kind of behaviors were therefore modeled for their kids and grandkids as the "natural" shape and outcome of a long term supposedly-monogamous relationship. To some extent, I feel that pornography it to some extent being used as a scapegoat to obscure some deeper and more fundamental problems of toxic masculinity.
    I see porn as a particular kind of drug, one that does not always cause illness and addiction and anti-social and unhealthy behaviors, but sometimes really does. Especially for adolescents and younger, whose brains are still developing. And like any other addictive substance, including, btw, coffee, it does indeed create AND shape demand. After all, as was famously said about another product, parts is parts. There is only so much variety in potential combinations--unless you start throwing in some additional variables.

    My generation did its best to upend norms surrounding gender roles, marriage, sexuality. We were raised by a generation that grew up during the Great Depression, lived through WWII and the deprivations of that as well, and to a lesser extent, Korea. I have family who fought in both world wars as well as Korea and VIet Nam. Viet Nam is of course, my generation's war of youth, what we protested against.

    Generations have always modeled behavior, good and bad. Maybe I just look too much at my own tiny middle class midwestern corner of the world to see how what my generation (boomer) has modeled differently than my parents' generation and I just don't see a lot of sociopathy or psychopathy there. Especially not sexually. MUCH less judgment, much more acceptance. Of course, there are exceptions. I know people my age who were sexually abused, and some who are a generation or more older than I am who were. I am extremely well aware of the secrecy and denial and shame attached. And I also saw how hard people worked to not foist the same shame and the same causes for shame upon their children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Obviously sympathy lies most appropriately with victims. But being a sexual abuser is no great life either. Particularly if you get caught.
    I don't even know what to say to this. "Oh the poor criminals who get caught"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily Lake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Obviously sympathy lies most appropriately with victims. But being a sexual abuser is no great life either. Particularly if you get caught.
    I don't even know what to say to this. "Oh the poor criminals who get caught"?

    Excuse me? I literally wrote in the quoted post that my point wasn't to sympathize with criminals over their victims. But teaching a young boy to abuse women is a crime against him as well as his future victims. It's no kind of life to live.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Emily Lake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Obviously sympathy lies most appropriately with victims. But being a sexual abuser is no great life either. Particularly if you get caught.
    I don't even know what to say to this. "Oh the poor criminals who get caught"?

    Excuse me? I literally wrote in the quoted post that my point wasn't to sympathize with criminals over their victims. But teaching a young boy to abuse women is a crime against him as well as his future victims. It's no kind of life to live.
    I don’t disagree….but why do so many men blame female rape victims? Outage against women who stand up for themselves? Or attack women for virtually any instance when women speak out against misogyny? FB is a known cesspool for anything political but the comments from men in response to the withdrawal from swim trials by Australian swimmer Maddie Groves who called out misogynists and ‘perverts’ as the reason she was quitting are just beyond the pale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post

    Excuse me? I literally wrote in the quoted post that my point wasn't to sympathize with criminals over their victims. But teaching a young boy to abuse women is a crime against him as well as his future victims. It's no kind of life to live.
    I don’t disagree….but why do so many men blame female rape victims? Outage against women who stand up for themselves? Or attack women for virtually any instance when women speak out against misogyny? FB is a known cesspool for anything political but the comments from men in response to the withdrawal from swim trials by Australian swimmer Maddie Groves who called out misogynists and ‘perverts’ as the reason she was quitting are just beyond the pale.
    Because they've been raised in a patriarchal society in which they are tutored, from a very early age, to consider female testimony less important than male, and to believe that "good girls" just don't get assaulted or harassed. It's not just men, either; mothers absolutely teach their daughters these lessons as well. It's a very sorry situation. I was pretty upset about the situation with Groves, too.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Emily Lake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Obviously sympathy lies most appropriately with victims. But being a sexual abuser is no great life either. Particularly if you get caught.
    I don't even know what to say to this. "Oh the poor criminals who get caught"?

    Excuse me? I literally wrote in the quoted post that my point wasn't to sympathize with criminals over their victims. But teaching a young boy to abuse women is a crime against him as well as his future victims. It's no kind of life to live.
    Okay... sure, technically. But about 95% of the content in your post was focused on the disservice and trauma that boys and men face when they get caught and punished for abusing women.

    Can you imagine the response if you'd said Well, yeah. Obviously sympathy lies most appropriately with victims. But being a racist is no great life either. Particularly if you get caught. We may not teach white people how to stay off out of jail for killing black people, but there is no forgiveness, no end to the punishment, when one is on it. An automatic life sentence that will determine employment and domicile for the rest of your life. If you do not wind up an overt criminal, you still have relationships in your life that are based on violence instead of love and respect, a lonely place. So we do no favors to anyone when we do not teach our children, of any race, the most basic ideas about racism and respect.

    I mean, seriously. "I'm not blaming the victim but....really, the man who abuses women is a victim too, right"?

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