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Thread: The Need To Worship

  1. Top | #11
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    Erich Fromm, with The True Believer (1951), hit a lot of points that explain the need to worship in the context of fanaticism. He described the personality types that are attracted to mass movements, and how they cling to the structure and mission such movements bring them. He notably pointed out the interchangeability of commitment to mass movements -- i.e., if you're Tex Watson or Susan Atkins, you can switch from Manson to Jesus and be just as fervent in your declarations.
    I'm like Rhea above -- I can't for the life of me feel those feelings or understand that much about them. I have born again cousins who live in a dream world that is filled with compelling characters that they believe to be real, and whom they venerate. This fantasy animates their lives, hour by hour. They can't write me a social card or complete a phone call without some reference to their fantasies. Of course they've pushed this stuff on their kids and grandkids; no escape for the young, unless they have a strong inward questioning sense or, like me, a strong shot of cynicism. (One of my cousins studied a Bruegel print I have on my library wall, The Triumph of Death, and commented finally, "But I don't see a Christian message in this." This could've been a For-Fucks-Sake moment, but I restrained myself. There's no use confronting fanatics.)

  2. Top | #12
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    What’s interesting to me is the difference between needing beliefs and needing to worship.

    I am utterly befuddled by people who like to worship others. Whether it’s god(dess)(es) or people. I just am plumb flummoxed. It doesn’t compute.

    In no small part because I have never ever, not once, ever, have met a person who liked to be worshipped who was a nice person.

    So by the commutative property of relationships, I cannot imagine wanting to worship a person (or being) because if they liked it, they would be a horrible person (being), and if they didn’t like it, I’m a jerk for doing it.

    So it just leaves me completely perplexed every time some religionist talks about worship with that faraway look and the bit of drool at their lip.
    If I am remotely correct, they idol worship to get close and depose whoever is seen as the best. of fittest.

    I have a new O.P. on this.

    https://talkfreethought.org/showthre...-Greatest-I-am

    Regards
    DL

  3. Top | #13
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    Having something/someone to follow gives us a sense of structure over top of what is a chaotic and meaningless world. It feels good to be a part of a community with a common purpose, which provides obvious survival advantages, and so therefore is likely embedded in our psychology. It also feels good to believe that there is a locus of control in the world.

    I mentioned in another thread that the core driver of this is likely the initial point - building a comfortable facade over bare reality, that nature is hostile.
    Nature is hostile to life that is not the fittest.

    It is anything but hostile to the fittest. It is a challenge for us to show our fitness.

    Nature demonstrably creates for the best possible end.

    The gods on offer should be so good.

    Regards
    DL

  4. Top | #14
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    Having something/someone to follow gives us a sense of structure over top of what is a chaotic and meaningless world. It feels good to be a part of a community with a common purpose, which provides obvious survival advantages, and so therefore is likely embedded in our psychology. It also feels good to believe that there is a locus of control in the world.

    I mentioned in another thread that the core driver of this is likely the initial point - building a comfortable facade over bare reality, that nature is hostile.
    I think you hit it. Religion provides structure in a chaotic world that mekes no sense.

    Maybe that is why the Brits hang onto the royals.
    ??

    The world makes sense. Ask any scholar.

    What do you see amiss, given that we are to continue competing to evolve to our fittest?

    I seer things being as close to perfection as our history allows.

    It is demonstrable that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given our history.

    Regards
    DL

  5. Top | #15
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    Amen brother Gnostic..Amen!!! Tell man, tell it..the truth brother.

    By the way what do yiu mean by perfection? Asa secular science person evolution made us what we are, natural as rocks and water.


    Seeing reality as 'perfection' is just another mind created delusion. Refresh my memory, what is that word for attributing human feelings onto reality? Anthropomorphize or something like that maybe ? Attributing human qualities to inanimate reality.

    Just another form of self worship. Christians worship god that is a perfection of the human male patriarch.

    Again you are no different than Christians.

    As to perfectin, that would imply an active creator with intent, a designer.

    As I say to Christians, if god created the universe he did a lousy job. Extinction level asteroid strikes, super nova, gamma ray bursts that could destroy life on Earth, storms, plagues, earthquakes.

    Christian say god as creator is demonstrable, you say your view is. I am sooooo confusers I don't know know what to belive.

    Not my idea of perfection.

    How woud you know it is perfection, by what objective standard?

  6. Top | #16
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    "Again you are no different than Christians"

    They honor genocide, homophobia and misogyny.

    [removed]
    Regards
    DL
    Last edited by Rhea; 06-19-2021 at 04:35 AM. Reason: Removed TOU violation

  7. Top | #17
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    What is perfection? Sounds like a self serving myth. Nature is perfect, all things are as perfect as can be, therefore I am perfect.

    God and Jesus are perfect, I am made in god's image.

    Are you familiar with the American philosopher P.E. Sailor who once exclaimed "I am what I am!". He along with Bunney shaped the thinking of my generation. We are what we are.

    Plants should be considered with respect for the simple fact we depend on them for life. Nothing mystical about that unless yiu make it so.

  8. Top | #18
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    What is perfection? Sounds like a self serving myth. Nature is perfect, all things are as perfect as can be, therefore I am perfect.

    God and Jesus are perfect, I am made in god's image.

    Are you familiar with the American philosopher P.E. Sailor who once exclaimed "I am what I am!". He along with Bunney shaped the thinking of my generation. We are what we are.

    Plants should be considered with respect for the simple fact we depend on them for life. Nothing mystical about that unless yiu make it so.
    He must have been a Gnostic.

    Regards
    DL

  9. Top | #19
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    If Yahweh is relegated to the status of evil demiurge....how does that resolve the PoE?

  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    What is perfection? Sounds like a self serving myth. Nature is perfect, all things are as perfect as can be, therefore I am perfect.

    God and Jesus are perfect, I am made in god's image.

    Are you familiar with the American philosopher P.E. Sailor who once exclaimed "I am what I am!". He along with Bunney shaped the thinking of my generation. We are what we are.

    Plants should be considered with respect for the simple fact we depend on them for life. Nothing mystical about that unless yiu make it so.
    He must have been a Gnostic.

    Regards
    DL
    Running low on things to say?

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