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Thread: The root of Christianity

  1. Top | #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    The root of Christianity was the Greek Chrestianity.

    The bible is a consolidation of many belief systems, just as thje Jewish religion is a combination of older belief system, mostly from Sumer and Egypt.

    Regards
    DL
    Do you have an argument? Why do you believe this?
    There are texts where the "e" has ben overwritten with an "i". Mountainman where are you?

  2. Top | #12
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    And Gnostic Christianity based somehow on Jesus is a combination of beliefs?
    Exactly what the bible shows, by design.

    We use the Chrestian parts that Christianity usurped and made their own.

    Do there remind you of a supernatural god or yourself as god of the more esoteric ecumenist, or more of an Eastern mystic teaching?

    Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

    Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRN...layer_embedded

    Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

    The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

    Regards
    DL

  3. Top | #13
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    The root of Christianity was the Greek Chrestianity.

    The bible is a consolidation of many belief systems, just as thje Jewish religion is a combination of older belief system, mostly from Sumer and Egypt.

    Regards
    DL
    Do you have an argument? Why do you believe this?
    For many reasons. Mostly history, logic and reason and how so many things match with what the Jews wrote.

    Just look at the end of the Book of the Dead and you see the basic 10 Commandments.

    Tom Harpur and a number of authors/scholars have also written of this.

    Regards
    DL

  4. Top | #14
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post

    Is it established fact? Or is it just another theory?
    Sounds pretty dubious to me.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  5. Top | #15
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    The root of Christianity was the Greek Chrestianity.

    The bible is a consolidation of many belief systems, just as thje Jewish religion is a combination of older belief system, mostly from Sumer and Egypt.

    Regards
    DL
    Do you have an argument? Why do you believe this?
    There are texts where the "e" has ben overwritten with an "i". Mountainman where are you?
    Again you show a thinking mind.

    That Mountainman site is a hard read.

    I could not find conclusive data to show how Gnostic Christianity came out of esoteric Christianity and Judaism.

    We both put man above god. Fitting that given that we invented and created all our gods.

    Regards
    DL

  6. Top | #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post

    Is it established fact? Or is it just another theory?
    Sounds pretty dubious to me.
    With this going on, who can you believe?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=rAt-PAkgqls

    Regards
    DL

  7. Top | #17
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post

    Is it established fact? Or is it just another theory?
    Sounds pretty dubious to me.
    With this going on, who can you believe?
    On historical questions? Primary sources, when possible. Consistent, context-considerate reasoning, when not.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  8. Top | #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    And Gnostic Christianity based somehow on Jesus is a combination of beliefs?
    Exactly what the bible shows, by design.

    We use the Chrestian parts that Christianity usurped and made their own.

    Do there remind you of a supernatural god or yourself as god of the more esoteric ecumenist, or more of an Eastern mystic teaching?

    Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

    Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRN...layer_embedded

    Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

    The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

    Regards
    DL
    The usual theo-babble.

    Apparently you use the same 'Chinese menu' approach to Christianity. Pick one from column a and one from column b..

    I always thought there was a homosexual theme to the gospels. You reject divinity but you love a man from 2000 years ago based on a few lines in what was an obviously embellished crafted narrative. From the gospels if anything Jesus was arrogant and craved attention. Love Me!!

    BTW, do you keep kosher and stone adulterers? Jesus did not suften Mosaic Law, in fact he reinforced it saying Jews had strayayed. .

  9. Top | #19
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    The rise of Christianity in particular

    The rise of Christianity in particular

    https://literatureandhistory.com/ind...-and-starlight

    Same podcast. Now I've gotten to the fall of Rome and the rise of Christianity.

    He makes another statement as if it's a well established fact as to why Christianity itself rose to prominence. He also ties it into why the empire fell apart.

    His arguments are as follows:

    1) Christian doctrine is nothing special in the Roman world. The idea that you should deny the bodily pleasures and nourish the soul is deeply Greco-Roman and goes all the way back to the Pythagoreans ca 600 BC. These beliefs are shared by Roman theists and atheists alike (ex. Stoics).

    2) As peace and stability became the norm (50 - 200 AD) opportunities for social advancement stopped. Social structures became rigid. Peace and stability lead to exploding wealth among the rich, which didn't benefit the poor. Peace led to their numbers swelling. Wealth was increasingly concentrated at the top.

    3) Over time Rome became increasingly cosmopolitan. Peace allowed people to travel more and communicate more. The difference between a Roman citizen and non-citizen became blurred. Which made the social rigidity and prominence of Roman culture harder to justify. Membership in a cult allowed the devotee to find food and shelter no matter where they travelled in the empire. Christianity was only yet another of these. In this period, these were all very similar. So cult memberships exploded.

    4) Of all the cults Christianity was the only cult saying that it was not only ok to be poor, but that the poor were morally superior to the rich. Which in an empire increasingly consisting of disempowered poor people meant that the Christian cult had the most appeal to most people. In spite of, in every other way, being identical to most other cults.

    5) From about 200 AD the Roman empire was rupturing from inside. The above stated factors was ripping it apart. Not to mention that the empire was over-extended and couldn't effectively defend it's borders anymore. The Roman empire became violent and unstable. At this point membership to a cult became increasingly important and increasingly vital for sheer survival. For the poorest they often only had one option available to them, Christianity.


    He didn't mention this but I remember from other lectures that a factor why Constantine converted the entire empire was because of the Parabalani. A sort of private militia who had taken a vow of poverty. In practice they were basically a free army to any rich person who had converted to Christianity. All he needed to do was to house them and feed them. They would use them to attack rich non-Christians and disrupt their businesses. Who, due to being rich, were inherently suspect. No other justifications were needed for attacking them. This created a huge push for rich Romans to convert. A prime motivation for Constantine in converting the empire was to put a stop to the power, (and use and abuse) of the Parabalani.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabalani

    The idea that the Roman empire was decadent and corrupt and therefor fell apart was an idea as old as Rome itself. Going on and on about how horrible the lazy and decadent are, and how they were a threat to the existence of Rome, can be found in almost every Roman social or political text ever written. In all ages, being tough and living a simple life and working hard, as well as being generous toward the poor, was always the prime Roman virtue (as well as ancient Greek before them). Them going on about it was simply the ultimate bogey man. And this was copied right into Christianity. Roman society before and after Constantine's conversion didn't change. The Christian virtues were the same virtues that had always been upheld as the highest in Rome. The difference lies in the details and only really mattered to philosophers.

    The biggest shift in Roman culture was before and after Augustus' rise to power (31 BC). That's when free speech died. And literature becomes less interesting. Less attacks on specific people. More general vague concepts. Texts become increasingly moralistic and gush about the virtues of emperors.

    The reason why we have heard so much about Roman decadence is because Romans were horrified about it at that time and loved gossiping about it in horror. Especially the alleged decadence of their emperors. Something later Christian converts continued to do. Again, nothing changed. Today of course we love emphasizing the decadent lifestyles of the Romans because saying that they had about the same moral values as us, (except when it comes to slavery) isn't particularly interesting to talk about.

    I found all this quite illuminating and convincing.

  10. Top | #20
    Senior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post

    With this going on, who can you believe?
    On historical questions? Primary sources, when possible. Consistent, context-considerate reasoning, when not.
    There is no question on the bible being a consolidation of many belief systems.

    You should remember all the primary documentation that the inquisitors burned, so as to keep others ignorant of the more moral ideologies that were alive and well before the murdering Christians had their way.

    Regards
    DL

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