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Thread: The Right To Repair

  1. Top | #31
    Elder Contributor barbos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Sealed all glass Samsung phone can't be pulled apart without specialist gear. Unless someone in town has the equipment, you have to send it away for a simple battery change...which is made to be not so simple.
    They want you to buy a new phone when battery dies. That's the real reason for unreplaceable batteries.

  2. Top | #32
    Elder Contributor barbos's Avatar
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    In my view it's not so much right to repair. It's about need to repair. I don't understand why stuff has to break so much.
    For example, Iron ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothes_iron ). Most of them have horrible design. Cord which gets twisted and mechanical temperature regulator. Both of these two things breaks well before they should.
    First, cord should be detachable and allow twisting
    Second, mechanical regulator must go. It should be temperature sensor and actual relay or two with triac. with control circuit which detects failure
    That way if one relay fails another one can be used. Such Iron could be virtually unbreakable.

    Same with power supplied for notebooks. They must be sold separately from notebooks, have standard voltage and standard connector. And connector with cord should be detachable from the power supply with, again, standard connector on power supply itself. Replacement power supplies must be sold without any cords attached to it, just a brick with two sockets.

  3. Top | #33
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    There are service companies that repair phones., lie replacing a display.

    My flip phone costs $25 and my smart phone $65. I doubt if if I woud save money having them repaired.

    On the other hand some people spend thousands of dollars on smart phones.

    Dos Apple have an exchange program?

    Surface mount chips can be replaced.

    Another racket, expensive phones plus extended warranty fees.

    As the story goes IBM fearing Apple competition tasked a group to go off and design a PC and printer. The requirement was robotic assembly.

    These days PCBs are raely assembd and soldwered by hand. Most large cities have contract assembly companies and it can be done by mail/

    A large scale plant has electronic parts on reels. A solder paste is screened on the PCB, and a pick and place machine places the parts on the board. It is all on a conveyor line. The board moves through a soldering chamber then goes to a 'bed of nails tester'. The board is sucked down onto a grid of small test probes connected to test equipment. If a problem is found te machine list parts to be changed and it is retested. If the boards are cheap enough failures are tossed.

    Complex boards are near impossible to troubleshoot on a bench.

  4. Top | #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post

    I wouldn't require full service manuals--if the company doesn't consider it worth repairing they shouldn't be required to prepare documentation on how to repair it. However, I would require things like disassembly instructions for anything that can be disassembled (not everything can. I'm looking at a powered toothbrush--the manual explicitly states there's no way to take it apart. The housing is glued around the electronics, there are no openings of any kind so as to ensure it's immune to water damage) be available for free in a format that doesn't take anything esoteric to read it.

    That laptop I mentioned earlier--I had a diagram of where the electronics were, it was enough to figure out the battery was on the daughterboard, but nothing showed how it was related to the housing, I wasn't able to find that daughterboard. If you don't know how it goes together you can easily end up pulling something apart that you didn't realize was there.
    The old "No User Serviceable Parts" thing. This is the inevitable result of robotic assembly manufacturing. Anything assembled by a human can be disassembled by a human, but the reason robots do the job is so the product can be sold at a profit. Anything could be engineered to be serviceable, but if it can't be sold, what's the point?
    This has nothing to do with robot vs human assembly. There is a way to the battery, it's just that without an adequate understanding of what steps must be taken to reach it there's too high a chance of damage because you didn't know something was connected.

    The toothbrush is a different case entirely and I don't object--there's always a tradeoff between ease of disassembly and protection against the elements. For a cheap tool that is expected to frequently encounter water I have no problem with them choosing a better seal over the ability to repair. Sometimes it's even an explicit tradeoff--consider Tile trackers. You can get the regular version with an IP55 rating and a replaceable battery, or the sealed version with an IP68 rating but it's not possible to replace the battery.

  5. Top | #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post
    Weird, in all notebooks boards, I came across, batteries were clearly visible.
    The CMOS battery, not the main battery.
    Yes, I was talking about CMOS battery.

    In theory there're variants which look like normal chip, albeit a little bit thicker than normally. They combine RTC, CMOS and battery in one package.
    But they are not common in ordinary computers.
    Sure, if the motherboard were lying on my desk I figure I could see the battery. The problem is that given what I saw on the diagram I'm sure I was missing something in disassembly, pulling the motherboard would not be safe.

  6. Top | #36
    Elder Contributor barbos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post

    Yes, I was talking about CMOS battery.

    In theory there're variants which look like normal chip, albeit a little bit thicker than normally. They combine RTC, CMOS and battery in one package.
    But they are not common in ordinary computers.
    Sure, if the motherboard were lying on my desk I figure I could see the battery. The problem is that given what I saw on the diagram I'm sure I was missing something in disassembly, pulling the motherboard would not be safe.
    You could not find battery on the diagram? Where did you get the diagram?
    Anyway as I said, I have never had troubles seeing CMOS battery. I saw Cell Phones with CMOS batteries too, it's pretty tiny. Main battery is usually on.

  7. Top | #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post

    Yes, I was talking about CMOS battery.

    In theory there're variants which look like normal chip, albeit a little bit thicker than normally. They combine RTC, CMOS and battery in one package.
    But they are not common in ordinary computers.
    Sure, if the motherboard were lying on my desk I figure I could see the battery. The problem is that given what I saw on the diagram I'm sure I was missing something in disassembly, pulling the motherboard would not be safe.
    You could not find battery on the diagram? Where did you get the diagram?
    Anyway as I said, I have never had troubles seeing CMOS battery. I saw Cell Phones with CMOS batteries too, it's pretty tiny. Main battery is usually on.
    I could figure out that the battery was on a daughterboard. I couldn't find said daughterboard. If I dismounted the motherboard there would be wires going from it to the daughterboard. I couldn't see any means of getting to the other side.

  8. Top | #38
    Elder Contributor barbos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post
    You could not find battery on the diagram? Where did you get the diagram?
    Anyway as I said, I have never had troubles seeing CMOS battery. I saw Cell Phones with CMOS batteries too, it's pretty tiny. Main battery is usually on.
    I could figure out that the battery was on a daughterboard. I couldn't find said daughterboard. If I dismounted the motherboard there would be wires going from it to the daughterboard. I couldn't see any means of getting to the other side.
    We need pictures and name of the notebook. What you describe is some weird shit. daughterboard?

  9. Top | #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post
    You could not find battery on the diagram? Where did you get the diagram?
    Anyway as I said, I have never had troubles seeing CMOS battery. I saw Cell Phones with CMOS batteries too, it's pretty tiny. Main battery is usually on.
    I could figure out that the battery was on a daughterboard. I couldn't find said daughterboard. If I dismounted the motherboard there would be wires going from it to the daughterboard. I couldn't see any means of getting to the other side.
    We need pictures and name of the notebook. What you describe is some weird shit. daughterboard?
    Yes, daughterboard. The page that showed the layout had a small separate board shown as connected to the main board with wires. Typically laptops have a board and then things like hard drives, batteries etc in another layer--I assume there was a gap in that layer and they put a small circuit board there. I couldn't see any way to access it, though, and I couldn't find disassembly instructions. It was very annoying to be thwarted by something so trivial.

  10. Top | #40
    Elder Contributor barbos's Avatar
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    If you need instructions for disassembling a notebook then you should not.

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