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Thread: Billionaires Blast off

  1. Top | #281
    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post

    You talk as if mega-billionaires were half the population. In fact, they're an "outgroup" for 99.9999% of us.
    That doesn't refute his argument.
    Maybe not in an authoritarian State, but in a representative democracy, it does should.

  2. Top | #282
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    In other words, once again a case of eat-the-rich.

    I do not believe consumers are overcharged by getting a better deal.
    Once again: nothing to do with 'eat the rich' and everything to do with power and position...the balance of power being weighed heavily in favour of you know who.
    Yep: the balance of power is weighted in favor of the common man, and against the rich. What a surprise. We live in democracies.

    In ancien regime France, the balance of power was weighted heavily in favor of the rich, and therefore rich people weren't taxed and poor people were. That's what people in power do: they tax people out of power. But as you can see from the IRS graph Derec showed in post #211, we have a progressive tax system: richer people have to spend more of their lives producing stuff for the government than poorer people do. If rich people really have most of the power, and are in a position to configure the tax system as they please, why the heck would they have made it discriminate against themselves?
    You still miss the point.

    To summarize: in terms of pay rate, the 'common man' as in the average worker has very little negotiating power on his own. Without protections in place, awards (often too low), he is presented with the pay rate and conditions, take it or leave it.

    Workers don't get to set the rules. Politicians promise the world at election time, then take care of those at the top, the business leaders. Workers are left to languish, wages stagnate for decades while the upper crust enjoy gains.

    Collective bargaining and good representation at the table is often the only way to for workers to improve their lot.

    Which does not mean 'eating the rich' or making them poor, just getting a fairer share of the wealth they help to build.

    So what's the problem?

  3. Top | #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    Maybe not in an authoritarian State, but in a representative democracy, it does should.
    So, dictatorship of the majority?

  4. Top | #284
    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    Maybe not in an authoritarian State, but in a representative democracy, it does should.
    So, dictatorship of the majority?
    When the majority is 99.9999%, yeah.
    You disagree. So dictatorship of the .0001%?

  5. Top | #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    When the majority is 99.9999%, yeah.
    You disagree. So dictatorship of the .0001%?
    That's a false dichotomy.

  6. Top | #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post

    Nothing of the sort. Are you suggesting that the highly profitable companies are unable to pay their workers more? The reason that they don't is not that they are unable to, but that they are unwilling.

    Their business practice is to pay a little as possible in order to maximize profits. They pay what they need to, and an imbalance of negotiating power prevents workers from securing better pay. Collective bargaining goes some way in addressing this imbalance of power.
    You're trying to keep people from accumulating large sums of money....
    I am pointing out that excessive accumulation of wealth in the hands of a small percentage of the population is not good for society or the economy, and I have given the reasons why.....which you just ignore or brush aside.
    I agree that wealth inequality is an increasing problem, and that limiting giga-fortunes with a wealth tax may be a good idea. And I'd like to see a return of labor union power in the U.S. And I agree that Amazon and Walmart have generated wealth off the sweat of their workers.

    BUT, it is oversimplified to attribute all corporate wealth to worker exploitation. Do Apple, Microsoft or Pfizer underpay their workers?

  7. Top | #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swammerdami View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post

    I am pointing out that excessive accumulation of wealth in the hands of a small percentage of the population is not good for society or the economy, and I have given the reasons why.....which you just ignore or brush aside.
    I agree that wealth inequality is an increasing problem, and that limiting giga-fortunes with a wealth tax may be a good idea. And I'd like to see a return of labor union power in the U.S. And I agree that Amazon and Walmart have generated wealth off the sweat of their workers.

    BUT, it is oversimplified to attribute all corporate wealth to worker exploitation. Do Apple, Microsoft or Pfizer underpay their workers?
    I agree. It’s not one thing or another only. Either libertarian economics or communism. We had a capitalistic economy in the 50’s but 91% marginal tax rates. I don’t think we need to go that high. And ther were a variety of ways to reduce that. But I do think we should go back to 70% rates for any amounts over $1,000,000.

    We also need to consider a revenue tax vs. a profits tax. Amazon has trillions of dollars in sales a year. Through accounting gimmicks, it makes no profit usually so it pays no taxes. A 5% revenue tax would bring in significant revenue. Probably enough to balance the budget.

  8. Top | #288
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    Does anyone else find themselves secretly hoping that one of them explodes?

    That’s wrong I know, but what’s the point of these trips? They aren’t advancing science. They’re just going a multi million dollar thrill ride.
    I don't. This is how technological progress is made.

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  9. Top | #289
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swammerdami View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post

    I am pointing out that excessive accumulation of wealth in the hands of a small percentage of the population is not good for society or the economy, and I have given the reasons why.....which you just ignore or brush aside.
    I agree that wealth inequality is an increasing problem, and that limiting giga-fortunes with a wealth tax may be a good idea. And I'd like to see a return of labor union power in the U.S. And I agree that Amazon and Walmart have generated wealth off the sweat of their workers.

    BUT, it is oversimplified to attribute all corporate wealth to worker exploitation. Do Apple, Microsoft or Pfizer underpay their workers?
    The specific areas of concern should be identified and addressed, though I can't that happening any time soon.

    If those at the top tier of these companies are getting very, very rich....perhaps a larger portion could go to the workers who do menial but essential work that helps keep the business running. Somebody has to do maintenance, somebody has to do deliveries.....

  10. Top | #290
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    Does anyone else find themselves secretly hoping that one of them explodes?

    That’s wrong I know, but what’s the point of these trips? They aren’t advancing science. They’re just going a multi million dollar thrill ride.
    I don't. This is how technological progress is made.

    Somebody constructs the wheels, the struts, the engine, wings, seats, propeller so the 'rich guy' can realize their dream. Where they all working for a fair wage, or the bare minimum?

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