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Thread: Billionaires Blast off

  1. Top | #421
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post

    Somebody constructs the wheels, the struts, the engine, wings, seats, propeller so the 'rich guy' can realize their dream. Where they all working for a fair wage, or the bare minimum?
    See any wheels or seats there? The struts, engine, wings and propellers they built themselves. They didn't want to build their own engine but all the ones they could buy were too heavy. The propellers, they not only carved themselves, they invented themselves. Previous attempts at powered flight were based on the notion that an aircraft propeller is a kind of steamship screw; it was W. and O. who figured out an aircraft propeller actually needs to be a 90-degree-rotated wing.
    Are you suggesting the inventor mined ore, processed raw materials, etc, all on his lonesome? That mine owners extracted raw materials on their lonesome? Factory owners producing goods on their lonesome? No workers needed?

  2. Top | #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Real cheese--not the horrid processed stuff--is more expensive than beans and rice. Plus, cheese is full of fat and a not inconsiderable amount of sodium. I write this as a cheese lover. When I was really poor, cheese was a real luxury for me.
    Of course it's more expensive than rice and beans, but you thought it was too much to ask the poor to actually cook their rice and beans, so I was looking for options you don't have to cook.

    Food stamps are great but if you've never tried to feed your family on them, you really don't know what you're talking about.
    I have not, but I do know that S in SNAP stands for 'supplemental', which means that it is not meant to pay for all the food used by a family. It is just meant to help with food bills.

    Do you not realize that all of those convenience foods are loaded with fat and sodium? Have you looked at the sodium content for ham?????
    Well, if you think the poor are not capable of cooking fresh foods, then preserved foods are a must. And salt is a good preservative.
    I never said that ham was health food. But the claim of that chart was that thousands of Americans starve to death because they are not getting enough calories and protein. And I just wanted to show that it is trivially easy to get enough calories and protein in your diet. If that number is at all accurate it is not because these people could not afford the protein. I think Loren might be right, that it is mostly people so messed up by drugs that they neglect necessities like food.

    All of what you mentioned is exactly what a lot of people without much money do to feed themselves. There are too many people who cannot afford to do that, or only can do it rarely. Food stamps don't work at burrito stands, none of which are in my town, despite there being a couple of Mexican restaurants.
    I was just throwing out options. The smart thing is of course to prepare meals. It is usually cheaper and more nutritious. Even the rare people without a stove can buy a $20 hot plate and a pot and a skillet for about the same.

    The diet you are suggesting is full of fat and sodium which both contribute to poor health and is simply out of reach of a lot of people. And not necessarily available everywhere or for purchase with food stamps.
    I am not suggesting that diet, I am pointing out that even that diet will get you enough protein. I was specifically talking about that protein starvation chart.

    Yeah, they are. I know what I spend each week on fresh fruits and vegetables and it's not something I could do if I were poor. When I was poor, a bag of carrots and a bag of apples needed to last for at least a couple of weeks. At least. Oranges were a rare treat.
    What were you spending all your money on that an 80¢ orange was a "rare treat"? Around here, people paying with food stamps tend to wear brand name clothes and sneakers. Priorities, I guess.

    Grocery stores and restaurants operate on very slim profit margins. Fresh fruits and vegetables have shorter shelf lives compared with canned. They cost more for stores to carry and are riskier. You need to be sure of your profit.
    No kidding! And those profit margins can be destroyed by shoplifting and/or vandalism. "Food deserts" are not due to evil grocery store companies, but because of people living in those neighborhoods.

  3. Top | #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Even cheaper: Beans and rice in a crock pot. Non-perishable until cooked, also.
    Of course. When it comes to cheap complete protein, you can't beat rice and beans. But Toni thought it was too much to expect the poor to cook, so I specifically mentioned protein-rich foods you don't have to cook.

  4. Top | #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    What if the government confiscated Jeff Bezos wealth and invested it to create a highly efficient supply chain to lower the prices of goods, and the speed at which they were delivered.

    This would greatly improve the lives of everyone!
    Maybe. Would the workers get bathroom breaks?

  5. Top | #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    I, for one, am proud to have helped pay the tax burden of billionaires so they can take their vanity flights to space.
    So how did you determine that some of the tax burden you paid was actually "the tax burden of billionaires"?

    It's disgraceful for people who have to work for the government three days a month to slander people who have to work for the government five days a month as not paying their fair share.

  6. Top | #426
    Contributor Trausti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowy Man View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    What if the government confiscated Jeff Bezos wealth and invested it to create a highly efficient supply chain to lower the prices of goods, and the speed at which they were delivered.

    This would greatly improve the lives of everyone!
    Maybe. Would the workers get bathroom breaks?
    Oh, come on. When has government ever created something with high efficiency?

  7. Top | #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canard DuJour View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    So the question is, how much wealth would the 4.6 billion poorest have if those countries had governments that didn't take private property rights seriously? If you can't show that they'd have more than $1000 each, then you haven't shown the inequality is causing a problem.
    Dunno about "taking property rights seriously" but GDP growth, both globally and within-country, has slowed to such an extent and in such local proportions that even the IMF now attributes it to increasing rich-poor income gaps , both global in within-country.
    And if the IMF says it it must be true? A lot of things about the world economy have changed over the years; picking two and saying "This one is because of that one." is post-hoc-ergo-propter-hoc. Where's the controlled experiment that shows making billionaires poorer increases GDP?

    The idea that convergence further down the global income distritbution (which wouldn't even be a thing without China) is a necessary corollary of the average American's loss of income share is zero-sum thinking 101.
    So who the heck said it's a necessary corollary? There are any number of ways the average American could "lose income share" -- i.e., gain income not as fast as the average earthling -- without convergence further down. I'm just saying it's what actually happened over the last few decades.

    Not to mention "in-group" favouratism.
    How do you figure that? In-group favoritism is a matter of preference; opinions about whether X happened or about whether X was a necessary corollary of Y aren't matters of preference.

  8. Top | #428
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowy Man View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    What if the government confiscated Jeff Bezos wealth and invested it to create a highly efficient supply chain to lower the prices of goods, and the speed at which they were delivered.

    This would greatly improve the lives of everyone!
    Maybe. Would the workers get bathroom breaks?
    Oh, come on. When has government ever created something with high efficiency?
    Government is at least as efficient as private industry, when adjusted for scale.

    Corporations with similar sizes to government entities are similarly inefficient.

    The big corporations don't get the same scrutiny that governments do; But the idea that they're more efficient is a total myth.

  9. Top | #429
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Even worse, Bezos, Musk, et al, gets subsidies from the government to the tune of billions of dollars....so much for standing on their own feet. Billionaire welfare?

  10. Top | #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    I, for one, am proud to have helped pay the tax burden of billionaires so they can take their vanity flights to space.
    So how did you determine that some of the tax burden you paid was actually "the tax burden of billionaires"?

    It's disgraceful for people who have to work for the government three days a month to slander people who have to work for the government five days a month as not paying their fair share.
    When someone trots out the libertardian rhetoric for tax rates (i.e. taxes = working for the government), you know rational discussion has left the room.

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