Page 3 of 60 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 595

Thread: Billionaires Blast off

  1. Top | #21
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    2,960
    Archived
    7,585
    Total Posts
    10,545
    Rep Power
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfield View Post
    The political philosophy of the US: as long as you don't break the law, you are welcome to accumulate unlimited power. It's the paradox of liberalism.
    Convenient then that the rich write the laws, neh?

  2. Top | #22
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    5,086
    Rep Power
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    No. Why would you?



    What's wrong with thrill rides? If you go on a tourist trip to the Galapagos or something, you are not advancing science either. It's not like you're going to catalogue previously unknown flora and fauna while there.
    But just because Charles Darwin did it almost 200 years ago, does not mean your trip there would be pointless.

    These people have a lot of money. I see nothing wrong in spending it on stuff not affordable to us mere mortals. Bezos' jaunt to the edge of space is no more pointless than his longer-than-football-field yacht.
    I don't agree.

    First of all, the impact on the environment must be very significant and I don't think it's justifiable just to massage the egos of a bunch of rich people.

    But the other more important thing is that it would be a very, very grave mistake to allow wealthy people to somehow stake a claim to any part of space or space exploration or the intellectual property rights to any discoveries made as part of these missions.

    Of course you are way too young to remember the early days of NASA and the beginnings of space exploration but I'm not. Today, the world is filled with products and devices that directly arose from the space program. I don't want Jeff Bezos near any of the next waves of technology and innovation to arise. That belongs, by rights, to the world, not to any individual who has the ego and the pocketbook to grab even more for himself. It's obscene. And dangerous.
    The problem Toni is that we'll never colonize another planet or continue to explore without a profit incentive. And until we have a base on another planet or moon, our civilization is at risk. I personally can't wait until we have a base on the moon, a base on mars, are mining the asteroids, and exploring the rest of the solar system. And if someone can figure out how to do all this at a profit, we'll all benefit.

  3. Top | #23
    Veteran Member funinspace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    4,031
    Archived
    10,245
    Total Posts
    14,276
    Rep Power
    70
    Now this is stuck in my head...


  4. Top | #24
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Port Clinton, Ohio
    Posts
    4,643
    Archived
    591
    Total Posts
    5,234
    Rep Power
    73
    So someday the moon and Mars and all will have ciggie butts blowing about, and discarded Red Bull cans, and Twinkie wrappers, WalMart bags, and an unpaired jelly flip-flop or two. Somehow I think we should rededicate ourselves to healing this world and hedging in the lethal damage we do. Not only that, but to picture the first Trump resort that's extraterrestrial (Astro-Lago) -- with the Secret Service forced to pay literally astronomic rates to guard Fat Bastard -- is to imagine the ultimate insult to the universe. Expect an asteroid to hit us hard, at that point.

  5. Top | #25
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Eugene, OR
    Posts
    16,221
    Archived
    16,829
    Total Posts
    33,050
    Rep Power
    97
    Branson Beats Jeff Bezos to Space, Aiming to Open Space Tourism - The New York Times

    Doing what the North American X-15 did some 60 years ago. Carrying a rocketplane up on a carrier plane and then releasing it. The rocketplane then fires its rocket engine and gets high up in the atmosphere, close to the Kármán line boundary of outer space (100 km, 62 mi, 328,000 ft).

    Virgin Galactic
    Virgin Galactic
    WATCH LIVE: Virgin Galactic Unity 22 Spaceflight Livestream - YouTube - the actual trip is nearly an hour into this video

    The "Virgin" part refers to Richard Branson liking to enter new businesses, something that e has done for decades.

    RB himself flew in this flight, in rocketplane "Unity" carried up by carrier plane "Eve".

    That livestream video does not show the takeoff of the Eve-Unity combination, and it skips to where Eve released Unity. It did so at
    Altitude: 46,300 ft, 8.8 mi, 14.1 km
    Velocity: 390 mph, 628 km/h, 174 m/s, Mach 0.5

    Unity's rocket engine soon started, and it burned for a minute, pushing Unity to
    Altitude: 138,000 ft, 26.1 mi, 42.0 km
    Velocity: 3268 mph, 5259 km/h, 1460 m/s, Mach 3.0

    Unity then flew on a ballistic trajectory, going up to apogee at 2:35 after release
    Altitude: 283,000 ft, 53.6 mi, 86.3 km
    Velocity: 674 mph, 1085 km/h, 301 m/s, Mach 1.1

    It then dropped a little bit before its re-entry phase started at 3:40.
    Altitude: 220,000 ft, 42 mi, 67 km
    Velocity: 1500 mph, 2400 km/h, 670 m/s, Mach 2.3

    Unity then became a glider, much like the X-15's and the Space Shuttles, and it successfully landed at 14:20.

  6. Top | #26
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Burnsville, MN
    Posts
    6,477
    Archived
    2,911
    Total Posts
    9,388
    Rep Power
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    Branson Beats Jeff Bezos to Space, Aiming to Open Space Tourism - The New York Times

    Doing what the North American X-15 did some 60 years ago. Carrying a rocketplane up on a carrier plane and then releasing it. The rocketplane then fires its rocket engine and gets high up in the atmosphere, close to the Kármán line boundary of outer space (100 km, 62 mi, 328,000 ft).

    Virgin Galactic
    Virgin Galactic
    WATCH LIVE: Virgin Galactic Unity 22 Spaceflight Livestream - YouTube - the actual trip is nearly an hour into this video

    The "Virgin" part refers to Richard Branson liking to enter new businesses, something that e has done for decades.

    RB himself flew in this flight, in rocketplane "Unity" carried up by carrier plane "Eve".

    That livestream video does not show the takeoff of the Eve-Unity combination, and it skips to where Eve released Unity. It did so at
    Altitude: 46,300 ft, 8.8 mi, 14.1 km
    Velocity: 390 mph, 628 km/h, 174 m/s, Mach 0.5

    Unity's rocket engine soon started, and it burned for a minute, pushing Unity to
    Altitude: 138,000 ft, 26.1 mi, 42.0 km
    Velocity: 3268 mph, 5259 km/h, 1460 m/s, Mach 3.0

    Unity then flew on a ballistic trajectory, going up to apogee at 2:35 after release
    Altitude: 283,000 ft, 53.6 mi, 86.3 km
    Velocity: 674 mph, 1085 km/h, 301 m/s, Mach 1.1

    It then dropped a little bit before its re-entry phase started at 3:40.
    Altitude: 220,000 ft, 42 mi, 67 km
    Velocity: 1500 mph, 2400 km/h, 670 m/s, Mach 2.3

    Unity then became a glider, much like the X-15's and the Space Shuttles, and it successfully landed at 14:20.
    So, I do not play "keeping up with the Robinsons" or whatever it's called but it strikes me the motive may in fact be "before the other billionaire" moreso than "before anyone".

  7. Top | #27
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Eugene, OR
    Posts
    16,221
    Archived
    16,829
    Total Posts
    33,050
    Rep Power
    97
    This was all below the von Karman line, and it was far from getting into orbit.

    One needs 8 km/s to get into low Earth orbit - nearly 30,000 km/h or 18,000 mph or Mach 25 (25 * speed of sound at high altitudes for airplanes)

    After some more test flights, Virgin Galactic is to be open for business in early 2022, with $200,000 / $250,000 per passenger.


    There's a much cheaper way to get to high altitudes, even if one does not get very far. Put a video camera on a weather balloon with a parachute, fill the balloon with helium, and release it. Like a GoPro camera or a smartphone with a camera. One can get to 100,000 ft / 20 mi / 30 km with this combination.


    Blue Origin on Twitter: "From the beginning, New Shepard was designed to fly above the Kármán line so none of our astronauts have an asterisk next to their name. For 96% of the world’s population, space begins 100 km up at the internationally recognized Kármán line. (link)" / Twitter

    The US Air Force and Federal Aviation Administration use 50 mi / 80 km / 264,000 ft instead.

    Blue Origin on Twitter: "#NewShepard is go for launch on July 20 for #NSFirstHumanFlight. This is the 16th flight and first with astronauts on board. Watch live at (link). Coverage starts at 6:30 am CDT / 11:30 UTC. (link)" / Twitter

    Blue Origin | Home
    Blue Origin

    The travelers will be in a space capsule on top of a New Shepard rocket. The rocket will carry them up, detach, and land with its engine in the fashion of SpaceX's rockets. The capsule will also come down, using parachutes.

  8. Top | #28
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Buenos Aires
    Posts
    3,596
    Archived
    7,588
    Total Posts
    11,184
    Rep Power
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby
    Unless you're an autocratic king or dictator, nobody has their own money.

    Money is a measure of what your society owes you. It's not property, or a commodity, and it doesn't belong to you. It's a measure of what society owes you at any given point in time, and your society gets to decide how it fluctuates in value. You might have some of it taken away as tax, or some of the value of it taken away by inflation. Or you might be given some for whatever reasons society has to give it away - as payment of salary for bureaucrats or soldiers; as a benefit to people otherwise unable to support themselves, or their families; as a grant for education, or public art, or scientific research.
    Of course your money belongs to you, in the moral sense anyway, and legal technicalities aside.

    And sure, it can be taken away as taxes. But so can - say - gold, or wheat, or oil, or anything. And you might be given some not by "society" but by some other individual, in exchange for something you do or give. Just like gold. Or salt. Or maze. Or pretty much anything. And the value might fall due to inflation. And again, that is the relative value against other things. Which might fall for anything, e.g., gold's value might fall because people do not value it anymore to the same extent, etc. So, your argument would apply to pretty much anything if it were proper.

    But be that as it may, when I say 'their money' I do not mean necessarily cash or currency in a bank account. In fact, most of their money is in terms of property, in turns in the form of shares of companies. And to get cash, they either get paid by some of those companies - not by society - with money some other individuals, companies (and so in the end other individuals), etc., pay them, or they sell shares, things like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by bilby
    Money hasn't been a commodity people can own for almost a century.

    It's a measure of what the world owes you. And nobody's done enough for the world to be owed a super yacht, or a private spacecraft.
    Even if people did not own money, they do own super yachts. And private spacecrafts. And companies. And so on. And they get them because they get money. Which other people generally give them, willingly, by means of transactions they do of their own free will. It's not about what a nebulous 'society' owes you. It's about what other people choose to give you, usually but not always in exchange from what you give them. Well, that and what you inherit, but usually parents too choose to leave those resources - which they own - to their children, and would do so even if there were no inheritance law to make that transition smoother.

  9. Top | #29
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Eugene, OR
    Posts
    16,221
    Archived
    16,829
    Total Posts
    33,050
    Rep Power
    97
    Thus being like the V-2 rocket


    Some people want to go beyond short suborbital flights. From the NYT,
    The era of nonprofessional astronauts regularly heading to orbit may also begin in the coming year. Jared Isaacman, a 38-year-old billionaire, is essentially chartering a rocket and spacecraft from SpaceX for a three-day trip to orbit that is scheduled for September.

    In December, Space Adventures has arranged for a Japanese fashion entrepreneur, Yusaku Maezawa, and Yozo Hirano, a production assistant, to launch on a Russian Soyuz rocket on a 12-day mission that will go to the International Space Station.

    Another company, Axiom Space in Houston, is arranging a separate trip to the space station that will launch as soon as January.

    The orbital trips are too expensive for anyone except the superwealthy — Axiom’s three customers are paying $55 million each — while suborbital flights might be affordable to those who are merely well off.

  10. Top | #30
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Eugene, OR
    Posts
    16,221
    Archived
    16,829
    Total Posts
    33,050
    Rep Power
    97
    Elon Musk is also involved in spacefaring, with his rocket company SpaceX.

    There is some value in these spaceflight indulgences, I think. Virgin Galactic and Blue Origin are aiming at space tourism, and more tourists involved will likely bring down costs, from economies of scale. Such economies have happened with many technologies, and those economies may happen here also.

    However, Elon Musk does not seem interested in running a space-tourism business.


    But there is another indulgence that does not have nearly as much value. Yachts. Especially superyachts. Superyacht - typically at least 40 m / 130 ft long to as much as 180 m / 590 ft.

    The current size champion is Azzam (2013 yacht). It is *huge*. One might almost say ... titanic.
    • Gross tonnage (volume measurement): 13,136 (45,000 m^3).
    • Length: 180 m / 590 ft, its beam 20.8 m
    • Beam (width): 20.8 m / 68 ft
    • Draft (depth below water): 4.3 m / 14 ft 1 in
    • My estimate of displacement (mass): 10,000 metric tons
    • Speed: 32 knots (59 km/h; 37 mph)

    It was commissioned by Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan, President of the United Arab Emirates. it cost more than $500 - $600 M.

    Azzam: 10 facts about Lürssen's 180m superyacht

    The Azzam can have a crew of 70 to 80 people and it can have as many as 36 guests.

    It has four engines, two diesel engines for long-distance travel and two turbine engines for great speed. The ship uses water-jet propulsion, with two fixed jets and two steerable jets. It's top-speed fuel consumption is 13 tons/hour. That's about 0.01 miles per gallon.

    Azzam Superyacht - Ship Technology

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •