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Thread: Why HRW is untrustworthy

  1. Top | #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post

    How do you know this?
    He doesn’t - he believes it.

    More importantly, LP focuses on a minor detail of a larger terrible story yo deflect from the reality that the IDF killed civilian adults and children.
    It goes to credibility. I'm focusing on a detail that shows the account is false. You just assume it's true despite it containing an impossibility.
    I have no idea if it is true. I have read that blast winds can throw people through the air. Maybe the victim is exagerrating, maybe not. Maybe the victim is using the wrong words to describe what happened, maybe not. Whether that happened to this person as he said or not, I don't know and I don't really care because in the overall picture, it really doesn't matter. But you focus on some minor detail and claim it is false to obscure what does matter: the overwhelming evidence that the actions of the IDFwhen killed children and adult civilians .

    I find your priorities here morally depraved.

  2. Top | #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Don2 (Don1 Revised) View Post
    Emphasis added.

    Human Rights Watch also included Israeli government's narrative and includes their part of the story, though the Israeli government only went so far in their explanation, which is a problem.
    First, if they were using ground penetrating bombs they wouldn't have exploded 1 meter above ground.
    The soldier could have lied or they could be defective. Another possibility is that the munition moves and explodes so quickly that the human eye has trouble keeping up. So a munition that explodes 1 meter underground may appear like a mental photo frame above ground, explode below microseconds later, but the mind recalls above ground then explosion. This then also explains better why he'd feel like he was moving upward as the force would have more upward direction. In any case, THE DETAIL DOESN'T MATTER.

    There were explosions. There were casualties.

    Second, look at the pictures. You can see places where the street has collapsed into the ground. That couldn't happen if there hadn't been hollow space underneath.

  3. Top | #43
    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post

    How do you know this?
    He doesn’t - he believes it.

    More importantly, LP focuses on a minor detail of a larger terrible story yo deflect from the reality that the IDF killed civilian adults and children.
    It goes to credibility. I'm focusing on a detail that shows the account is false. You just assume it's true despite it containing an impossibility.
    Again, how do you know it's impossible?
    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

    Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor but because we can't satisfy the rich.

  4. Top | #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post

    It goes to credibility. I'm focusing on a detail that shows the account is false. You just assume it's true despite it containing an impossibility.
    Again, how do you know it's impossible?
    I agree in most cases, being physically picked up, moved through the air horizontally for a significant distance, and not dying from all that is a stretch.

    But as I keep saying, the impossibility of the events does not preclude the impossibility of the experience. You would need to be fairly well educated in physics, human psychology, human reaction, and a number of other things just to iron out the realities that the experience encoded.

    This person is a lay observer, not an expert. All any such first hand account can say is "I was there, and something bad happened; I was made to experience injury, observe death, be a part of chaos", no more or less

  5. Top | #45
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    When I first saw it, it was high in the air. Then it gradually descended as it came in our direction. It exploded about one meter from the ground. Something hit me in the eye, the abdomen, and legs. I flew into the air and landed on the ground. I didn’t lose consciousness.
    To me it is plausible.

    There are skydivers who service main and backup parachute failures and walk away. Recently there was a nes report of someone who fell several stories ad walked away with minor injuries. All depends on circumstances.

    Sounds possibly like a version of 'flash bang' or stun grenade. Designed to disorient and put somebody on the ground with concussion.

    The shock can cause a muscular reaction that sends you backwards.

    When I was young and stupd I got it into a fight. I caught the guy on the jaw and it sent him back a few feet against a wall.

  6. Top | #46
    Elder Contributor barbos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    It's interesting that you specially call out Palestinians for being human.
    Are you denying that palestinians do often lie and ridiculously/excessively so?
    All these staged videos?
    I find this particular case unremarkable compared to other cases. Not worthy of bringing it up.

  7. Top | #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    It's interesting that you specially call out Palestinians for being human.
    Are you denying that palestinians do often lie and ridiculously/excessively so?
    All these staged videos?
    I find this particular case unremarkable compared to other cases. Not worthy of bringing it up.
    There is propaganda on both sides. The long running Netanyahu administration expertly played Israel as the innocent victim to American conservative Christians. Over here any sustained substantive criticism of Israel is political suicide.

    Obama went so far as to openly and strongly condemn the settlements, unusual for a president. Biden is more nuted.

    There is a Chrtian prophesy over here regarding the Second Coming. There is a belief that the restorationo f Israel, rebuilding of the temple, and restoration of temple ritual is a precursor to the return of Jesus.

  8. Top | #48
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    There is a Chrtian prophesy over here regarding the Second Coming. There is a belief that the restorationo f Israel, rebuilding of the temple, and restoration of temple ritual is a precursor to the return of Jesus.
    I suspect that most people, particularly non-theist non-American people, don't realize how strong this belief is here. Many millions of people really do believe this.

    People really do believe that unqualified support for Israel is supporting God. This belief correlates strongly with "Trump supporting, creationist, antivaxxers", and there are literally millions of them. Israel can do no wrong, in their eyes.

    And they vote, as all politicians are aware.

    I'm confident that there are more Zionists in Texas than Israel.
    Tom

  9. Top | #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don2 (Don1 Revised) View Post

    The soldier could have lied or they could be defective. Another possibility is that the munition moves and explodes so quickly that the human eye has trouble keeping up. So a munition that explodes 1 meter underground may appear like a mental photo frame above ground, explode below microseconds later, but the mind recalls above ground then explosion. This then also explains better why he'd feel like he was moving upward as the force would have more upward direction. In any case, THE DETAIL DOESN'T MATTER.

    There were explosions. There were casualties.

    Second, look at the pictures. You can see places where the street has collapsed into the ground. That couldn't happen if there hadn't been hollow space underneath.
    From the Washington Post:

    (Sorry, the board won't inline it) --FIXED


    That sort of damage only happens when there's a hollow underneath.
    Last edited by RayJ; 08-02-2021 at 04:02 AM. Reason: fixed inline WEBP issue

  10. Top | #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post

    It goes to credibility. I'm focusing on a detail that shows the account is false. You just assume it's true despite it containing an impossibility.
    Again, how do you know it's impossible?
    I agree in most cases, being physically picked up, moved through the air horizontally for a significant distance, and not dying from all that is a stretch.

    But as I keep saying, the impossibility of the events does not preclude the impossibility of the experience. You would need to be fairly well educated in physics, human psychology, human reaction, and a number of other things just to iron out the realities that the experience encoded.

    This person is a lay observer, not an expert. All any such first hand account can say is "I was there, and something bad happened; I was made to experience injury, observe death, be a part of chaos", no more or less
    It's not "most cases", it's that the energy to throw someone with a blast wave is far above the energy to kill.

    Did you not notice this post: https://talkfreethought.org/showthre...l=1#post924139

    Look at the last line. That's what actually happens.

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