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Thread: Je Suis Muslim: Muslims use free speech to protest free speech

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    Je Suis Muslim: Muslims use free speech to protest free speech

    From SMH:

    Hundreds of people have gathered at a rally in Sydney's west in protest over negative coverage of Islam and treatment of the prophet Mohammad.

    While police said more than a dozen people were moved on from the rally for breaching the peace, the event was peaceful.

    Among the 800-strong crowd in the Muslim enclave of Lakemba, placards were held up with the slogan: "Je Suis Muslim" or "I am Muslim", evoking the same sentiment that became a touchstone for many in the wake of attacks in Paris.

    Organisers of the Our Prophet, Our Honour rally said it was intended to be "a peaceful and respectful event" to counter negative coverage of Islam and the lampooning of the Prophet by French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.
    Quite respectful indeed. The article shows a cartoon circulating at the rally -- apicture of a dog thinking the words 'freedom of speech' while pissing on a grave marked 'Charlie Hebdo'.

    Speaking at the rally, outside the Lakemba train station, local Muslim leader Sufyan Badar told the crowd it was also in response to the waves of protests in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attack.

    Mr Badar said the protests in the name of free speech had nothing to do with freedom.

    ...
    "No one should be asked to apologise for or distance themselves from something they are not responsible for," Mr Qureshi said.

    "I would, however, mention that it's interesting that the question of whether a Muslim event will be peaceful or violent consistently seems to come up."
    He's having a laugh isn't he? Given the number of Muslim protests that turn violent, it's rather like asking why people think soccer riots are likely to turn violent.

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    Veteran Member Axulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    From SMH:



    Quite respectful indeed. The article shows a cartoon circulating at the rally -- apicture of a dog thinking the words 'freedom of speech' while pissing on a grave marked 'Charlie Hebdo'.

    Speaking at the rally, outside the Lakemba train station, local Muslim leader Sufyan Badar told the crowd it was also in response to the waves of protests in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attack.

    Mr Badar said the protests in the name of free speech had nothing to do with freedom.

    ...
    "No one should be asked to apologise for or distance themselves from something they are not responsible for," Mr Qureshi said.

    "I would, however, mention that it's interesting that the question of whether a Muslim event will be peaceful or violent consistently seems to come up."
    He's having a laugh isn't he? Given the number of Muslim protests that turn violent, it's rather like asking why people think soccer riots are likely to turn violent.
    And it's not just your typical violence that happens from protests that get out of control that leads to things like minor injuries and property damage either. It is violence that frequently leaves dead bodies in its wake.

    These particular Muslims are apparently oblivious to the Streisand effect. The more they push back, the more it motivates those of us to strongly support freedom of expression to support the right of those who criticize Islam and draw anti-Islam cartoons and to also check out what the fuss is all about. They need to become desensitized to these cartoons and then and only then will you see the number of drawings of this kind reduced. The only way to desensitize them to it is to flood them with it until they no longer have any energy left to protest it and it becomes nothing unusual. Then we can finally move on.

    It's not that I enjoy offending people, is that they need to learn how to grow up and grow a thicker skin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axulus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    From SMH:



    Quite respectful indeed. The article shows a cartoon circulating at the rally -- apicture of a dog thinking the words 'freedom of speech' while pissing on a grave marked 'Charlie Hebdo'.



    He's having a laugh isn't he? Given the number of Muslim protests that turn violent, it's rather like asking why people think soccer riots are likely to turn violent.
    And it's not just your typical violence that happens from protests that get out of control that leads to things like minor injuries and property damage either. It is violence that frequently leaves dead bodies in its wake.

    These particular Muslims are apparently oblivious to the Streisand effect. The more they push back, the more it motivates those of us to strongly support freedom of expression to support the right of those who criticize Islam and draw anti-Islam cartoons and to also check out what the fuss is all about. They need to become desensitized to these cartoons and then and only then will you see the number of drawings of this kind reduced. The only way to desensitize them to it is to flood them with it until they no longer have any energy left to protest it and it becomes nothing unusual. Then we can finally move on.

    It's not that I enjoy offending people, is that they need to learn how to grow up and grow a thicker skin.
    Perhaps. You do realize that in France, it is legal to direct such satire and attention towards Muslims, Catholics, Hindus, etc... but it is illegal to make "antisemitic" speech? Is it possible that in France (not Australia), part of the issue is the double standard?

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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Axulus View Post

    And it's not just your typical violence that happens from protests that get out of control that leads to things like minor injuries and property damage either. It is violence that frequently leaves dead bodies in its wake.

    These particular Muslims are apparently oblivious to the Streisand effect. The more they push back, the more it motivates those of us to strongly support freedom of expression to support the right of those who criticize Islam and draw anti-Islam cartoons and to also check out what the fuss is all about. They need to become desensitized to these cartoons and then and only then will you see the number of drawings of this kind reduced. The only way to desensitize them to it is to flood them with it until they no longer have any energy left to protest it and it becomes nothing unusual. Then we can finally move on.

    It's not that I enjoy offending people, is that they need to learn how to grow up and grow a thicker skin.
    Perhaps. You do realize that in France, it is legal to direct such satire and attention towards Muslims, Catholics, Hindus, etc... but it is illegal to make "antisemitic" speech? Is it possible that in France (not Australia), part of the issue is the double standard?
    Considering France's past it's certainly understandable. The problem with people who react this way is they have no appreciation for free speech. I agree that the best tonic is more blowback of the Hebdo type. We're not allowed to push religious/political buttons at work because it's distracting and unsafe. Got nothing to do with free speech.

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    Member Draconis's Avatar
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    What did irritate me was the Pope insisting "there must be limits to free speech" - why can't there be limits to religion?

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    Senior Member OLDMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Axulus View Post

    And it's not just your typical violence that happens from protests that get out of control that leads to things like minor injuries and property damage either. It is violence that frequently leaves dead bodies in its wake.

    These particular Muslims are apparently oblivious to the Streisand effect. The more they push back, the more it motivates those of us to strongly support freedom of expression to support the right of those who criticize Islam and draw anti-Islam cartoons and to also check out what the fuss is all about. They need to become desensitized to these cartoons and then and only then will you see the number of drawings of this kind reduced. The only way to desensitize them to it is to flood them with it until they no longer have any energy left to protest it and it becomes nothing unusual. Then we can finally move on.

    It's not that I enjoy offending people, is that they need to learn how to grow up and grow a thicker skin.
    Perhaps. You do realize that in France, it is legal to direct such satire and attention towards Muslims, Catholics, Hindus, etc... but it is illegal to make "antisemitic" speech? Is it possible that in France (not Australia), part of the issue is the double standard?
    Being Jewish isn't an idea. Jews have no problem if you want to argue religion. Being muslim, catholic, hindus simply means you subscribe to a state of ideas. Ideas can be challenged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconis View Post
    What did irritate me was the Pope insisting "there must be limits to free speech" - why can't there be limits to religion?
    Great line!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDMAN View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Perhaps. You do realize that in France, it is legal to direct such satire and attention towards Muslims, Catholics, Hindus, etc... but it is illegal to make "antisemitic" speech? Is it possible that in France (not Australia), part of the issue is the double standard?
    Being Jewish isn't an idea. Jews have no problem if you want to argue religion. Being muslim, catholic, hindus simply means you subscribe to a state of ideas. Ideas can be challenged.
    in France, not all ideas can be challenged. That is the point. BTW, being Jewish can be "an idea" unless you are going to claim one must be born Jewish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Axulus View Post

    And it's not just your typical violence that happens from protests that get out of control that leads to things like minor injuries and property damage either. It is violence that frequently leaves dead bodies in its wake.

    These particular Muslims are apparently oblivious to the Streisand effect. The more they push back, the more it motivates those of us to strongly support freedom of expression to support the right of those who criticize Islam and draw anti-Islam cartoons and to also check out what the fuss is all about. They need to become desensitized to these cartoons and then and only then will you see the number of drawings of this kind reduced. The only way to desensitize them to it is to flood them with it until they no longer have any energy left to protest it and it becomes nothing unusual. Then we can finally move on.

    It's not that I enjoy offending people, is that they need to learn how to grow up and grow a thicker skin.
    Perhaps. You do realize that in France, it is legal to direct such satire and attention towards Muslims, Catholics, Hindus, etc... but it is illegal to make "antisemitic" speech? Is it possible that in France (not Australia), part of the issue is the double standard?
    There are specific historical circumstances behind France's and Germany's holocaust-denial related speech laws. Having said that, I don't support those laws.

    But the double standard is a red herring. If it were not a double standard, if France did not have specific bans on antisemitic speech, the artists at Charlie Hebdo would still have been massacred. The problem -- insulting the prophet (peace be upon her) -- was still the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Perhaps. You do realize that in France, it is legal to direct such satire and attention towards Muslims, Catholics, Hindus, etc... but it is illegal to make "antisemitic" speech? Is it possible that in France (not Australia), part of the issue is the double standard?
    There are specific historical circumstances behind France's and Germany's holocaust-denial related speech laws. Having said that, I don't support those laws.

    But the double standard is a red herring. If it were not a double standard, if France did not have specific bans on antisemitic speech, the artists at Charlie Hebdo would still have been massacred. The problem -- insulting the prophet (peace be upon her) -- was still the problem.
    The double standard is not a red herring when it comes to the perception of Muslims in France about unfair treatment and hypocrisy. The French showed up en masse to protest the slaughter and to show support for freedom of speech, even though the French gov't enforces laws against certain speech. I can see why Muslims in France would find that a bit galling.

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