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Thread: What doesn't necessarily cure poverty

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksen View Post
    You're seriously going to argue that those poverty level college educated people in the OP chart are just interns?
    No, I'm seriously going to not argue anything of the sort and actually argue the exact opposite. There were four short sentences in that post and I don't see why it was so hard to read all of them instead of stopping after the first three.

    The reason that we can be picky about who we're going to take on as a free intern is because there is a lack of other viable options for the people in our pool of interns. If they could get a decent job which would pay them a decent salary and start them out in a decent career, that is what they would do and we would be left hiring the idiots who didn't realize that. Those options aren't out there, however, and they're kind of stuck with the bullshit choice we're screwing them with or something crappy which doesn't have a potential upside somewhere down the line.

  2. Top | #22
    Contributor ksen's Avatar
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    Right, so it's not education that's the problem, it's horrible employers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksen View Post
    Right, so it's not education that's the problem, it's horrible employers.
    Ya, the education is as fine as its ever been. It's what one can do with the education which is leading to the increased levels of poverty amongst the educated. Having a high school diploma or even, increasingly, a bachelor's degree doesn't make you as valuable a commodity to potential employers as it used to. This allows them to fuck over potential recruits to a much greater degree than they used to be able to and still get the same quality of new hires as they used to be able to get by offering higher salaries and benefits.

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    Ok, we're on the same page. I was worried there for second buddy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksen View Post
    Education

    http://www.vox.com/2015/3/30/8308607/education-poverty



    People in poverty are much more educated than they were 30-40 years ago . . . and they're still in poverty.

    What does cure poverty? More income.

    Shocking, I know.
    The biggest effect is from the hours worked rather than the pay rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ksen View Post
    Education

    http://www.vox.com/2015/3/30/8308607/education-poverty



    People in poverty are much more educated than they were 30-40 years ago . . . and they're still in poverty.

    What does cure poverty? More income.

    Shocking, I know.
    The biggest effect is from the hours worked rather than the pay rate.
    Nuh uh. There... two equally valid and unsubstantiated claims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksen View Post
    Ok, we're on the same page. I was worried there for second buddy!
    I think where we differ is that I don't believe that this is a situation that's going to be changing for the better and young people need to realize and accept that. If they don't take the time in school to target their education towards what employers are going to want, they are going to be left behind and won't even make it into the group that companies are willing to fuck over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post

    Didn't you start a thread about how educational level doesn't get one out of poverty as easily? A point about which majors pay back the cost of getting them would seem to be right on target.
    I think first you'd have to demonstrate that the degrees people in poverty are seeking are the "wrong" kinds of degrees.

    Besides, we're often sold by the Right that education is the answer. Well, no, education itself isn't the answer. As demonstrated by the chart in the OP.

    The right to education is the answer. Sometimes the question is wrong, and the question is usually, "What do you want to do?"

    Liberal Arts degrees were never intended to provide a person with a living income. There was a time when a college's main purpose was to provide clergymen. The liberal arts curriculum was created to prevent the children of the wealthy from becoming ignorant twits with no awareness of the world. They never had to worry about making a living.

    There is always value in education, even if it's only to gain an eye for the aesthetics of a clay pot. That value does not translate into money. As far as I know, the only use for an advanced degree in English is to teach people who want an advanced degree in English. It seems like some sort of pyramid scheme.

    The education which gives one the skills for which people will pay require more than college tuition. For most children who live in poverty, it's just too late. A STEM degree requires a person show up as a college freshman prepared with the needed math, chemistry, and physics training. It helps if they can read and write, also. All the scholarships, Federal grants, and student loans in the world will not make up for a deficient elementary and secondary education.

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    I think of a line from The Simpsons, where he said when designing the new car, that all cars should have a ball atop the antenna so it was easier for people to find their cars.

    College education doesn't become an automatic solution for unemployment because you saturate the market with degrees. You need more jobs available in order for all for the college grads to move into employment in their degree related field. And of course, you'd have to love pain if you want to go into the field of education to teach children.

  10. Top | #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ksen View Post
    Ok, we're on the same page. I was worried there for second buddy!
    I think where we differ is that I don't believe that this is a situation that's going to be changing for the better and young people need to realize and accept that. If they don't take the time in school to target their education towards what employers are going to want, they are going to be left behind and won't even make it into the group that companies are willing to fuck over.
    And that's a very unrealistic thing to ask of incoming college freshmen. I mean no one who studies this for a living really knows what skills are going to be in demand four years from now so how is an 18 year old fresh out of high school supposed to be able to figure it out?

    Companies used to do this thing called "training" or something which is where company specific skills would be learned. That's been thrown out the window.

    So I think the point of my OP stands in that education is not THE answer to someone's poverty problem.

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