View Poll Results: Are you in favour of the death penalty?

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    6 15.79%
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    32 84.21%
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Thread: The Death Penalty

  1. Top | #1
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    The Death Penalty

    Not sure if this one has been done already but what about the death penalty?

    Who is in favour?

    Why?

    Who is against?

    Why not?

    It is a complicated issue with many moral and political implications for society.

    I am in 2 minds about it to some extent but I think there are persuasive arguments on each side of the debate so I am keen to hear the thoughts from the free thinkers on the forum.

    There are aspects of morality and aspects of politics to the argument but in the end I went for the morality forum as I think the arguments for and against are more profound than mere politicking.

    Mods please move to another forum if my brief meta-analysis of the topic in the preceding paragraph is unsound.

  2. Top | #2
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    I don't have an issue with the state killing people in response to certain crimes per se. What I have an issue with is the fallibility of the legal system used to determine that. It makes no difference to crime rates to risk death for some crimes, so there's really nothing gained from it.

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    Good opener Tom.

    I think one of the problems with the lack of 'deterrence' is that a death sentence recipient in the USA knows he has at least 15 years of sitting around while the legal system bats his case back and forth.

    A lot of criminally minded folk take a short term view of life anyway so 15 years is so far away to them that it is not on their radar.

    If the death row time could be reduced to 12 months max it might be more of a eye-opener.

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    I'm for it.

    The problems with mistakes should be covered in my opinion by long appeals processes which I am also in favor of.

    I don't see it as a deterrent. It's basically to take someone guilty of heinous crimes out of society. Permanently.

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    Veteran Member dystopian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojorising View Post
    Good opener Tom.

    I think one of the problems with the lack of 'deterrence' is that a death sentence recipient in the USA knows he has at least 15 years of sitting around while the legal system bats his case back and forth.
    Does not compute.

    There are countries where the death penalty is administered far more swiftly after sentencing and it doesn't appear to have any noticeable deterrance effect there either. Even if it could actually be demonstrated there's a statistically significant deterrance effect, the fact that most developed countries have very low murder rates without any sort of death penalty in place makes it exceedingly obvious that this deterrence effect is unneccessary, which given the downsides makes it essentially a given that countries should abolish it.

    It does not deter crimes; and while it removes the possibility of murderers getting free and killing again, so too does life imprisonment. The latter actually being the cheaper option. That leaves revenge as the sole reason for the death penalty; and killing out of revenge is an immoral act and not something a civilized government should involve itself with; it serves no purpose other than to briefly appeal to an archaic and barbaric sense of "justice".

    There is no practical reason to institute a death penalty, despite the best efforts of proponents to find one that lets them pretend it's about something more than petty revenge.

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    DP makes enough people who, when they think about it, feel good. That's enough I guess. Its only a life here or a life there. A lot fewer lives than those taken by others texting while driving. Apparently that's not enough.

    I like the moral equivalence. How about you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojorising View Post
    Not sure if this one has been done already but what about the death penalty?

    Who is in favour?

    Why?

    Who is against?

    Why not?

    It is a complicated issue with many moral and political implications for society.

    I am in 2 minds about it to some extent but I think there are persuasive arguments on each side of the debate so I am keen to hear the thoughts from the free thinkers on the forum.

    There are aspects of morality and aspects of politics to the argument but in the end I went for the morality forum as I think the arguments for and against are more profound than mere politicking.

    Mods please move to another forum if my brief meta-analysis of the topic in the preceding paragraph is unsound.
    I'm against the death penalty for several reasons. The most important reason is because I believe people are valuable in the sense of dignity above all else. The death penalty measures human value by social usefulness, not by dignity.

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    In favour of it being mandatory in cases of child rapists/abductors where the result is victim's death. Also in cases of abduction/kidnapping of adults as well as children, resulting in death whether associated with rape or not. Some cases of 1st degree murder, eg in cases of torture before murder.
    Reason -- same as credoconsolans'.
    All these "capital crime" cases to be appealed twice, second appeal if first unsuccessful, and all appeals to be completed within 12 months. Judges and lawyers to be "encouraged" to treat cases as urgently as, say, cases of operable cancers are treated by doctors, by having their tenure and licence dependent each year upon their attention to this proviso. Because "Justice delayed is justice denied" as somebody said.

    Other safeguards and provisors can be applied. eg No plea bargains, special federal investigators in these cases to ensure no negligent, untrained, inexperienced or corrupt local investigators handle them.

  9. Top | #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dystopian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mojorising View Post
    Good opener Tom.

    I think one of the problems with the lack of 'deterrence' is that a death sentence recipient in the USA knows he has at least 15 years of sitting around while the legal system bats his case back and forth.
    Does not compute.

    There are countries where the death penalty is administered far more swiftly after sentencing and it doesn't appear to have any noticeable deterrance effect there either. Even if it could actually be demonstrated there's a statistically significant deterrance effect, the fact that most developed countries have very low murder rates without any sort of death penalty in place makes it exceedingly obvious that this deterrence effect is unneccessary, which given the downsides makes it essentially a given that countries should abolish it.

    It does not deter crimes; and while it removes the possibility of murderers getting free and killing again, so too does life imprisonment. The latter actually being the cheaper option. That leaves revenge as the sole reason for the death penalty; and killing out of revenge is an immoral act and not something a civilized government should involve itself with; it serves no purpose other than to briefly appeal to an archaic and barbaric sense of "justice".

    There is no practical reason to institute a death penalty, despite the best efforts of proponents to find one that lets them pretend it's about something more than petty revenge.
    I think you are giving revenge a bad name it does not entirely deserve.

    It is part of the evolved human emotional behaviour system. It is a hunger for redress against an offender followed by satiation when redress is achieved.

    I am a bit dubious about the relative cost. I think the 'higher cost' is because they sit around on death row for 15 years with lawyers' meters ticking which is something we could do without.

  10. Top | #10
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    Magical brownies:

    Yes, but only for those that are too dangerous to keep.

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