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    Atheists are the Key

    The 4 dominant religions can be divided into two - on one side stand King/Master religions - God is seen more as a Master - get down on your knees and swear loyalty(belief in today's religions) and hope for a reward. Actions don't matter, only belief matters and you better believe in the "right" God. One can serve only one master, hence the One God - but be clear that they are talking about One NAME for God, not the One God who created us all
    The ideas are very simple, quite primitive in fact - back in the day Kings were masters of their land ruling with an iron fist and He was the template for these religions - the King decided the quality and quantity of life of his subjects/slaves/servants. Hence swear your loyalty, beg for his forgiveness and enjoy the good life in heaven

    The other two - Hinduism/Buddhism stress action - Actions(Karmas) alone matter - belief is not necessary nor is required. These are Parent/Teacher faiths - God is seen more as a Parent/Teacher - everyone knows that Buddhism is a Teacher faith, but even in Hinduism God Krishna made it clear that He would only Advice and Instruct - nothing more - that is a Teacher. The goal is not pleasures of the flesh as in heaven but Moksha - Enlightenment, Knowledge - in fact, to be a God!

    See the difference between the two - Heaven and Moksha - one is given, you can beg for it, whereas Moksha is Earned, you cannot beg for it. Easy to understand - you give some money to a beggar - which he can then use to buy food or clothes or pay rent - pleasures of the flesh. Whereas Knowledge cannot be given - whether you want to learn a new language, play an instrument, learn math - all these have to be Earned

    And so, where does your religion fall into within these two categories? Simple - does your faith welcome Atheists? or does it teach hatred against Atheists? If it is the former then clearly it is saying your actions matter - somewhat like getting a job because of what you know instead of who you know. The King/Master religions are who-you-know religions - to get to heaven you must profess your belief in their God - whereas in Parent/Teacher faiths it is what-you-know, basically what you have done with your life is all that matters

    Neither Buddhism nor Hinduism preach hatred against Atheists

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    An absence of belief in the things that are believed is a threat to those that hold these beliefs because it puts to question the validity of the teachings of their religion...which, being based on faith instead of verifiable evidence, is open to question and doubt....which is one of the last things that believers want. Religion wants certainty, not questioning and doubt. Non believers being generally seen as a threat to faith (to whatever degree).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    An absence of belief in the things that are believed is a threat to those that hold these beliefs because it puts to question the validity of the teachings of their religion...which, being based on faith instead of verifiable evidence, is open to question and doubt....which is one of the last things that believers want. Religion wants certainty, not questioning and doubt. Non believers being generally seen as a threat to faith (to whatever degree).
    You are certainly right about religion not wanting questioning or doubt - blind believers are easier to control - which is the reason in the past we have had so many mass killings in the name of religion - today islam seems to be the last bastion of such religious hate and mass killings in the name of religion

    As i wrote - these are religions born when Kings ruled - the king was master of his land - master must be obeyed unconditionally - master is ALWAYS right. A slave/servant may not question the master, must blindly obey and religions are happy to promise that then he will be rewarded. Those that question suffer hell. A carrot-stick method is liberally used

    Amazing to see such primitive brainwashing works even against the best of them

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    http://southpark.cc.com/clips/2y8xoh/atheist-war

    Probably not too far from the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramaraksha View Post
    The 4 dominant religions can be divided into two - on one side stand King/Master religions - God is seen more as a Master - get down on your knees and swear loyalty(belief in today's religions) and hope for a reward. Actions don't matter, only belief matters and you better believe in the "right" God. One can serve only one master, hence the One God - but be clear that they are talking about One NAME for God, not the One God who created us all
    The ideas are very simple, quite primitive in fact - back in the day Kings were masters of their land ruling with an iron fist and He was the template for these religions - the King decided the quality and quantity of life of his subjects/slaves/servants. Hence swear your loyalty, beg for his forgiveness and enjoy the good life in heaven

    The other two - Hinduism/Buddhism stress action - Actions(Karmas) alone matter - belief is not necessary nor is required. These are Parent/Teacher faiths - God is seen more as a Parent/Teacher - everyone knows that Buddhism is a Teacher faith, but even in Hinduism God Krishna made it clear that He would only Advice and Instruct - nothing more - that is a Teacher. The goal is not pleasures of the flesh as in heaven but Moksha - Enlightenment, Knowledge - in fact, to be a God!

    See the difference between the two - Heaven and Moksha - one is given, you can beg for it, whereas Moksha is Earned, you cannot beg for it. Easy to understand - you give some money to a beggar - which he can then use to buy food or clothes or pay rent - pleasures of the flesh. Whereas Knowledge cannot be given - whether you want to learn a new language, play an instrument, learn math - all these have to be Earned

    And so, where does your religion fall into within these two categories? Simple - does your faith welcome Atheists? or does it teach hatred against Atheists? If it is the former then clearly it is saying your actions matter - somewhat like getting a job because of what you know instead of who you know. The King/Master religions are who-you-know religions - to get to heaven you must profess your belief in their God - whereas in Parent/Teacher faiths it is what-you-know, basically what you have done with your life is all that matters

    Neither Buddhism nor Hinduism preach hatred against Atheists
    The eastern religions are still essentially a political control mechanism, the mechanism just functions in a very different way.

    Instead of stressing obedience to an imaginary dictator, they come up with elaborate excuses why you "deserve" your caste or station in life, thus discouraging you from upsetting the order of society, thus preserving the power of whichever people sit at the top of that society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Underseer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramaraksha View Post
    The 4 dominant religions can be divided into two - on one side stand King/Master religions - God is seen more as a Master - get down on your knees and swear loyalty(belief in today's religions) and hope for a reward. Actions don't matter, only belief matters and you better believe in the "right" God. One can serve only one master, hence the One God - but be clear that they are talking about One NAME for God, not the One God who created us all
    The ideas are very simple, quite primitive in fact - back in the day Kings were masters of their land ruling with an iron fist and He was the template for these religions - the King decided the quality and quantity of life of his subjects/slaves/servants. Hence swear your loyalty, beg for his forgiveness and enjoy the good life in heaven

    The other two - Hinduism/Buddhism stress action - Actions(Karmas) alone matter - belief is not necessary nor is required. These are Parent/Teacher faiths - God is seen more as a Parent/Teacher - everyone knows that Buddhism is a Teacher faith, but even in Hinduism God Krishna made it clear that He would only Advice and Instruct - nothing more - that is a Teacher. The goal is not pleasures of the flesh as in heaven but Moksha - Enlightenment, Knowledge - in fact, to be a God!

    See the difference between the two - Heaven and Moksha - one is given, you can beg for it, whereas Moksha is Earned, you cannot beg for it. Easy to understand - you give some money to a beggar - which he can then use to buy food or clothes or pay rent - pleasures of the flesh. Whereas Knowledge cannot be given - whether you want to learn a new language, play an instrument, learn math - all these have to be Earned

    And so, where does your religion fall into within these two categories? Simple - does your faith welcome Atheists? or does it teach hatred against Atheists? If it is the former then clearly it is saying your actions matter - somewhat like getting a job because of what you know instead of who you know. The King/Master religions are who-you-know religions - to get to heaven you must profess your belief in their God - whereas in Parent/Teacher faiths it is what-you-know, basically what you have done with your life is all that matters

    Neither Buddhism nor Hinduism preach hatred against Atheists
    The eastern religions are still essentially a political control mechanism, the mechanism just functions in a very different way.

    Instead of stressing obedience to an imaginary dictator, they come up with elaborate excuses why you "deserve" your caste or station in life, thus discouraging you from upsetting the order of society, thus preserving the power of whichever people sit at the top of that society.
    I am sorry that's like saying Catholocism is all about encouraging pedophilia. Caste was a Brahmin construct - originally caste was defined based on occupation - just as we say a nurse is lower than a physician - same way - there was free movement within the castes - basically a Brahmin was a learned person - so if one learned, he or she became a brahmin but the Brahmins misused it - they found power in making sure that no outsiders were let in - marrying only within the clan encouraged casteism - unfortunately we see it still today because of arranged marriages - if there were no arranged marriages casteism would have died out long ago

    Other nations had these divisions also - the japanese classfied people into 4 classes also - the warrior, the artisan, the farmer and last one i forget. The greeks classified people into 3 categories - Gold, silver and bronze

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramaraksha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Underseer View Post

    The eastern religions are still essentially a political control mechanism, the mechanism just functions in a very different way.

    Instead of stressing obedience to an imaginary dictator, they come up with elaborate excuses why you "deserve" your caste or station in life, thus discouraging you from upsetting the order of society, thus preserving the power of whichever people sit at the top of that society.
    I am sorry that's like saying Catholocism is all about encouraging pedophilia. Caste was a Brahmin construct - originally caste was defined based on occupation - just as we say a nurse is lower than a physician - same way - there was free movement within the castes - basically a Brahmin was a learned person - so if one learned, he or she became a brahmin but the Brahmins misused it - they found power in making sure that no outsiders were let in - marrying only within the clan encouraged casteism - unfortunately we see it still today because of arranged marriages - if there were no arranged marriages casteism would have died out long ago

    Other nations had these divisions also - the japanese classfied people into 4 classes also - the warrior, the artisan, the farmer and last one i forget. The greeks classified people into 3 categories - Gold, silver and bronze
    No, as a political control mechanism, Catholicism works very differently.

    They encourage absolute obedience to an imaginary being, which maps directly into absolute obedience to the government (generally an authoritarian one up until a few centuries ago).

    Either way, it's about encouraging people to accept their "place" in order to preserve an existing power structure. The specific mechanism used by western and eastern religions just happen to be different, but the ultimate goal is still the same: know your place and don't stir shit up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Underseer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramaraksha View Post

    I am sorry that's like saying Catholocism is all about encouraging pedophilia. Caste was a Brahmin construct - originally caste was defined based on occupation - just as we say a nurse is lower than a physician - same way - there was free movement within the castes - basically a Brahmin was a learned person - so if one learned, he or she became a brahmin but the Brahmins misused it - they found power in making sure that no outsiders were let in - marrying only within the clan encouraged casteism - unfortunately we see it still today because of arranged marriages - if there were no arranged marriages casteism would have died out long ago

    Other nations had these divisions also - the japanese classfied people into 4 classes also - the warrior, the artisan, the farmer and last one i forget. The greeks classified people into 3 categories - Gold, silver and bronze
    No, as a political control mechanism, Catholicism works very differently.

    They encourage absolute obedience to an imaginary being, which maps directly into absolute obedience to the government (generally an authoritarian one up until a few centuries ago).

    Either way, it's about encouraging people to accept their "place" in order to preserve an existing power structure. The specific mechanism used by western and eastern religions just happen to be different, but the ultimate goal is still the same: know your place and don't stir shit up.
    What i am saying is that the way society or religion was constructed, it lead to distasteful consequences. Not letting Priests marry - there were good and bad reasons for doing so - good reason - priests can spend more time with followers - bad reason - their wealth after their passing went to the church instead of their offspring - anyway, has led to the present position. Incredibly it shows the amazing power of religion to brainwash people and keep them quiet - i can't in any way imagine the pedophiles just showed up just now and only in the US, Europe and Australia. Were there no pedophiles back in the day? I am sure they were - but the followers preferred religion over their little kids. Can't believe there are no pedophiles in heavily catholic countries like mexico and the phillippines - again the parents are choosing religion over their little boys

    Let priests marry, the problem will go away

    Same thing with Hinduism - no more arranged marriages, casteism will go away.

    How much of what any religion teaches is due to what it is teaching and what its followers have made it to be? We know people change with time. Does Catholocism teach pedophilia? of course not - but the structure of the religion, the silence of its followers have made it easy for abusers to take advantage. I don't know if it is just the US or if it is in other countries also but here the federal govt cannot go after these pedophile priests - they are beyond the law - only the victims may take them to court. If it is the same in other countries, there is another layer of protection that will let this abuse carry on

    Same way, did Hinduism teach division of people? I can't believe that - there was a division but the Brahmins took advantage. The No4 shows up a lot in Hinduism & in daily life - the 4 Yugas, the 4 Vedas, the 4 dimensions, the 4 directions, the 4 aspects of the word AUM, the 4 ways a couple promise to take care of each other in marriage etc - Hindus divided people into 4 divisions the same way, but it was never meant to be a steadfast by-birth rule.

    Have you read the Mahabharata? The Pandavas are the heroes in this epic - their Grandfather, an emperor, falls in love with a fisherwoman and marries her. That episode is famous because his son, Bheeshma, promises to never marry thus ensuring that the throne would go on to any progeny of the fisherwoman - now how did an emperor marry a lowly fisherwoman?

    Even today we do classify people - as i have noted a nurse is lower than a physician but he or she can move up and it is just a vocation not determined by birth - it was the Brahmins that made it a vocation by birth. Others did not have to go along with it, but sadly they did and arranged marriages were the real killer - it prevented the inter-mingling of castes

    Today as the economy grows and young people are thrown together, more and more young people are getting married outside their caste. Me, I am a Hindu and in my young age i did not have that option, so i chose not to get married rather than perpetuate this evil system. Fast forward to today, at least 3 of my nieces are married not only outside the caste but to guys who don't even speak our language! That's like an Englishwoman marrying a German or a Russian. My nephew recently got married to a chinese girl! Now we are going international

    Caste will die out, so will the pedophilia in the church but the religions will carry on as before and they should

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramaraksha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Underseer View Post

    No, as a political control mechanism, Catholicism works very differently.

    They encourage absolute obedience to an imaginary being, which maps directly into absolute obedience to the government (generally an authoritarian one up until a few centuries ago).

    Either way, it's about encouraging people to accept their "place" in order to preserve an existing power structure. The specific mechanism used by western and eastern religions just happen to be different, but the ultimate goal is still the same: know your place and don't stir shit up.
    What i am saying is that the way society or religion was constructed, it lead to distasteful consequences. Not letting Priests marry - there were good and bad reasons for doing so - good reason - priests can spend more time with followers - bad reason - their wealth after their passing went to the church instead of their offspring - anyway, has led to the present position. Incredibly it shows the amazing power of religion to brainwash people and keep them quiet - i can't in any way imagine the pedophiles just showed up just now and only in the US, Europe and Australia. Were there no pedophiles back in the day? I am sure they were - but the followers preferred religion over their little kids. Can't believe there are no pedophiles in heavily catholic countries like mexico and the phillippines - again the parents are choosing religion over their little boys

    Let priests marry, the problem will go away

    Same thing with Hinduism - no more arranged marriages, casteism will go away.

    How much of what any religion teaches is due to what it is teaching and what its followers have made it to be? We know people change with time. Does Catholocism teach pedophilia? of course not - but the structure of the religion, the silence of its followers have made it easy for abusers to take advantage. I don't know if it is just the US or if it is in other countries also but here the federal govt cannot go after these pedophile priests - they are beyond the law - only the victims may take them to court. If it is the same in other countries, there is another layer of protection that will let this abuse carry on

    Same way, did Hinduism teach division of people? I can't believe that - there was a division but the Brahmins took advantage. The No4 shows up a lot in Hinduism & in daily life - the 4 Yugas, the 4 Vedas, the 4 dimensions, the 4 directions, the 4 aspects of the word AUM, the 4 ways a couple promise to take care of each other in marriage etc - Hindus divided people into 4 divisions the same way, but it was never meant to be a steadfast by-birth rule.

    Have you read the Mahabharata? The Pandavas are the heroes in this epic - their Grandfather, an emperor, falls in love with a fisherwoman and marries her. That episode is famous because his son, Bheeshma, promises to never marry thus ensuring that the throne would go on to any progeny of the fisherwoman - now how did an emperor marry a lowly fisherwoman?

    Even today we do classify people - as i have noted a nurse is lower than a physician but he or she can move up and it is just a vocation not determined by birth - it was the Brahmins that made it a vocation by birth. Others did not have to go along with it, but sadly they did and arranged marriages were the real killer - it prevented the inter-mingling of castes

    Today as the economy grows and young people are thrown together, more and more young people are getting married outside their caste. Me, I am a Hindu and in my young age i did not have that option, so i chose not to get married rather than perpetuate this evil system. Fast forward to today, at least 3 of my nieces are married not only outside the caste but to guys who don't even speak our language! That's like an Englishwoman marrying a German or a Russian. My nephew recently got married to a chinese girl! Now we are going international

    Caste will die out, so will the pedophilia in the church but the religions will carry on as before and they should
    First of all, I can't speak for religions outside the Western tradition, but in the West, some denominations do not allow priests to marry because the ancient church wanted more money and didn't want to have to deal with inheritance laws in certain nations. Basically, the church didn't want some priest's child to inherit property that they considered the church's.

    Secondly, how exactly does allowing priests to marry change the fact that every major religion has a belief system structured to make it function as a political control mechanism meant to make revolutions, uprisings, etc. less likely to happen?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Religion doesn't serve a useful function, except for the powerful.

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    Plato's Royal Lie?

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